SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Sisters Simona Squad, the podcast where two sisters work for their backlogs in movies they haven't seen. I'm Phil Kabbalah, I'm Emily Bateman, and I'm Phil Girl.

SPEAKER_04 0:09

And we finally watch Tick Tick Tick Boom.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

But yeah, so we are watching the 2021 film Tick Tick Boom. And we have a very special guest who has actually never been a guest on any of our podcasts. This is the first time that we get to we get to have him to our lovely podcast home. Um, so thank you so much for being here, Phil.

SPEAKER_06 0:39

I am so excited. I've been waiting a year for this.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Uh as soon as we said we were doing another one.

SPEAKER_06 0:47

We were like dips going to be uh since I didn't get to have the privilege of being on Game of Rones. So I'm really happy to be here with y'all today. Yeah. Wherever it is, whatever time of day you're listening to this.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Yeah. Today, tonight, tomorrow, whatever. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so when um now that we're having we're having guests on, um so just a little bit about, you know, kind of get a feel for your taste in movies. Um so Phil, uh, we so we had asked specifically for three favorite movies. You said that you have four because you're a letterbox girly. Um so uh why don't you why don't you tell us what your four favorite movies are?

SPEAKER_06 1:28

Yeah, I mean, uh to be honest with you, I think that the first the the first three are pretty pretty film bro basic because they're Jurassic Park, Goodfellas, and then Parasite. Jurassic Park is the first movie that I remember seeing in theaters. It's like one of my first core memories seeing the movie in theaters to date myself here. Um and then how old were you when you saw it? It came out in '93, so five.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Okay, I was supposed to be young. We're the same age. Are we gonna say we're too early?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Because sometimes it's like I remember it and it was bad. Was it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:03

Yep. So I do remember my mom trying to cover my eyes at like the most graphic parts. I was like, don't do that. I'm having a great time. So drastic. Mom, leave me alone. Yeah, literally. So, um, yeah, and then Goodfellas, I saw in high school. It was like one of the first kind of films in that genre of like the mafia style film that I had seen. I remember watching it at a friend's house, uh, obviously not 17, and being like, Whoa, what like what are these? Who's Ray Lioda? Like, what who is this guy? And getting really caught up in those characters. Parasite, uh, of course, one of the newer films that's on here, uh Bong Junho, the very first film I watched from him. Um, just an incredible piece of film, um one that you go back and watch it and you kind of pull something different from it each and every single time. Um, and then my fourth film, which is a movie you guys will be talking about pretty soon. Uh, this movie just moved into, well, maybe, uh, just moved into my top four because I took everything everywhere all at once out for this movie.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Whoa.

SPEAKER_06 3:07

And I put in Puss and Boots the Last Wish that tracks.

unknown 3:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:14

Which was in strong contention. I went a different way with the films I suggested to y'all, but this was like, I didn't know if you guys were doing newer stuff, so I was like, maybe I should leave that out. But Puss and Boots The Last Wish. Um, again, it is one of the best, if not maybe the best animated film, and one of the best films I've ever seen ever. I can put it on at any time. Um, and it it is it it changed my life. And for somebody who I mean, I really love the Shrek franchise, it's great, but the first like couple Puss and Boots movies were like fine. And then this one came out and it kept getting incredible reviews. And then me, Eric, and a couple of friends saw it in theaters. We were like, that might be one of the best animated movies I've ever seen. And I just continue to go back to it all the time, and it is um it's incredible. So, yeah, the newest member of my my letterbox top four, which is supposed to be the last wish.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

It's always evolving, that's fine. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:08

I like that.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

And that's another tick for us to watch it, honestly. Like, the more people like yeah, and I we will add it to our spreadsheet, actually. We need to do that, it's not on there yet. Put it on the the growing list, yeah. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

That's that's so cool. I like I do like the idea of like changing up favorite movies sometimes, like figuring out like, okay, like what do I really care about? Because I feel like I I think like when we in our first episode, I was like, these two are like my absolute top two. And then like the third one, I'm like, it kind of depends a little bit. This one's a little squishier, but I feel I feel like I don't know, like there's obviously there's nothing wrong with you know getting new information and changing your mind, but it's like I feel like they're I feel like your favorite movies, like you have those like integral, like this has always been my favorite, and then it's like this is absolutely my vibe. I can, you know, this is what like what my heart wants right now. So I feel like I you kind of cover like the whole the spectrum of like what your favorite can be. So that's fun.

SPEAKER_06 5:10

Yeah, because like it it also depends on like what if I were to like assemble a movie night, it wouldn't be these four movies, you know what I mean? I'd I'd assemble like I'd put together maybe something a little bit different depending on whatever like the vibe was or the theme, or you know, like um because right outside, not to bring up a listing, but like right outside the top four and like seven is bridesmaids, you know, like one of my favorites movies, which by the way is returning to theaters in April, just so for those seasons. Oh my that means I don't know when this episode's coming out, but it might have passed already. Oh, way past. Bridesmaids came out in April. Hopefully you guys go see it. So so like there's just a whole, you know, I I just I I stopped taking it super serious a couple of years ago. And I was like, I'm not a film critic. I just want to have fun and and and enjoy movies, and and then that's what it like it is, just you know, yeah a lot better, a lot more fun time.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

That's so good. That's that's such an important threshold to get past where it's like I don't like I don't need to pick my favorite movie as like, oh, like I have good taste. It's like I like this, and there's nothing wrong with just liking it. Like it's once you get past that, it's just like I it's that I'm cringe, but I'm free. It's just like, hey, I like this dumb thing. It's really dumb. I don't care if you like it too, I really like it.

SPEAKER_06 6:26

Right. Right. Like Fast and the Furious, right, Emily?

SPEAKER_04 6:31

You guys? It's about family. Is it though? Yes. Apparently, one of them's that car is going to space. That's what I was doing.

SPEAKER_06 6:39

Actually, not what we're doing today.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

Shit, we watched some movie.

SPEAKER_06 6:44

Oh, we have to reschedule. Hang on. Tick-tick-boom, not Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

That's the third one.

SPEAKER_06 6:51

Yeah, but in terms of the timeline, it's a little bit earlier.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Oh, right, because the guy dies or something. Well, first wait.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Well, wait.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Spoiler! Oh my god. You guys keep bringing it up, and no one's giving me a solution for how to watch all of these stupid movies without taking a whole year to think of them.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

I unfortunately I do think it'll take a year, but I think that we've have a lot of potential of just like we could we have enough people who have seen them and are excited about making you see them. I think we could have a different guest on each episode. Uh like on each movie.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Emily is just flopping back in her chair, so so disgusted with this prospect.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

This is unfair. This is not Game of Thrones part the second, Fast and Furious. Like, I don't, this is not okay.

SPEAKER_06 7:42

There's also an unofficial prequel to Tokyo Drift if you just want to like throw.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Oh, isn't it that's like a little like like a short film, right?

SPEAKER_06 7:53

Yeah, it's like it's the same director and like some of the same characters, so this universe is infinite, is what we're trying to say.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

It contains multitudes. Oh my god. But there's nothing equivalent to it. Like I did that one. It was Game of Thrones. Like, this is this is just oh man. How? How did I miss both of the apparently pop culture-y important shit that everyone wants me to watch?

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Well, if it if it helps, I did not watch the Fast and Furious movies until I think maybe four years ago. Like I had never been like all about them since then. Because they're so God, they're hilarious. It's so fun. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I think I also watched them in like one of those weird periods of the pandemic where I was like, I need joy, I need something to cheer me up. And then I watched that sounds like, oh, this is great. This is exactly what I need. So I think it might also be the the right place, right time. But I don't know. We'll see. We listen, we got time. We have two fast and furious. Yeah, so we have plenty of other movies to get through first. Um uh Furious Seven. Um, but yeah, so today Emily made a face. Uh, we are instead carpome, we're shifting gears. Um, and we're talking about I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. You're not. I am a little sorry. Um we are talking about um a movie that Emily and I had not seen that uh Phil presented to us, which I was real actually really excited about. Um it is 2021's Tick Tick Boom. For for those unfamiliar, um, it's based on um playwright Jonathan Larson's um semi-autobiographical musical of the same name. So this one, I Emily and I were familiar with rent. I feel like I was a little familiar with just Jonathan Larson as a person, but I don't think I really I think I'd heard of like the name of this musical and I really didn't know anything else about it coming into it. Yeah, Emily, um do you wanna I don't know, do you wanna talk about how you how you missed this one? Like why sure yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

I had to look up when it came out because I didn't realize it was so recently. Like I I knew it was on Netflix, but I didn't realize it was only 2021. And I was like, how did I not see this? And I was like, oh wait, I just had a baby. Oh yeah, you were busy. So that's probably why um I had trouble watching like like paying attention to real movies and and stuff like that. So I think I just kind of put it off. I love Andrew Garfield, I love Vanessa Hudgens, so I was excited to see her do another musical, but I did not know anything about like the actual story of this or about Jonathan Larson as a real person. Uh I didn't realize it was so autobiographical though. Well, it's fuzzy, but so semi-autobiographical. Yeah. Um so yeah, and then I and then it just kind of doesn't come up again as I'm scrolling. So I just kind of skipped over it. And I did not know any of the music, so it it um yeah, I just I just kind of skipped over it.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Yeah, yeah, I think I think same. Like it was just in such a strange period of time, and I think it just like it kind of passed me by. And like you said, like I knew it was like it was something related to Jonathan Larson, and I knew that it was like, you know, music that he'd written, but I just hadn't really it it kind of just slipped past me. I don't know. Um, but yeah, Phil, how did you how did you end up watching watching this one?

SPEAKER_06 11:35

Yeah, so for me, the easy buy-in was being directed by Lynn Manuel Miranda. Um so you know, having followed him, of course, very closely. I mean, the Wait for podcast is named after Hamilton. So keeping up with his projects and also just being a big fan of Andrew Garfield as well. I saw a lot of the the press tour that they were doing at that time, um, and you know, as much as they could, of course, since it came out in 2021. But um, and Andrew Garfield, I think, with him just being such a endearing and sweet, genuine person, is like, yeah, it's easy to to support him and also Lynn. Um, and also, you know, dating probably 2016-2017 with Hamilton, I had always had an affinity for musical theater, but like I I never never really dove into it because it was like, no, that's lame. Guys don't listen to musical theater. And then again, and then and then again, just like movies, like embracing like, what am I talking about? I love the music. This music from Legally Blonde is real good. I'm just gonna listen to the music that I want to listen to. You know what I mean? So so when I finally did more of um a deep dive, and then you add in, you know, starting to find stuff like De Irving Hansen and all those kind of shows that were coming out in the in the mid-2010s. Um, so really having kind of a pulse on this movie coming out. I've actually this maybe shock I've never seen Rent because one, there's so many different versions. I don't I'm like, do I watch the film? Do I watch the one that was the TV version that maybe people don't like very much? I also want to see it in the theater. So I also very famously on our podcast did not enjoy the Wicked movies. Um I haven't seen the second one, and I really kept telling people I want to see this in theaters first in the theater first, a musical theater. And but I it kept getting so much hype. I was like, I guess I gotta go see it, and I didn't enjoy it, and now I'm like, I should have just stuck to my guns and watched the thing in an actual, you know, on a in an off-Broadway or whatever or a store, yeah, or a touring company, whatever it may be. So I've kind of like it'll still be worth it if you go see it. Yes. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I'm still gonna do that for sure. Um so now I'm just I think I'm maybe just waiting on that because you know shows come through Jacksonville all the time, so um, I'm hoping to maybe go and do that. So I have not seen Rent, but kind of like y'all, like Jonathan Larson, I knew the name. Um, and also I've known Lynn talking about how much of an impact he had on his life and that show, um, and then also some of his other work. So it was something that was on my radar because of all of those things, and then I'm I'm fairly certain I watched it pretty, pretty shortly after it had actually released on Netflix.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Nice. That's awesome. I us growing up, like I feel like I take knowing about rent so for granted. Like, that's just it's so ingrained. Like hearing that at hearing that at 17 and your worldview changing and going, oh my god, I what if I was an artist and I lived in New York and now you're like, everyone here sucks, but this music is so good. It's just oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:37

I remember hearing Seasons of Love in like a trailer. Who knows what movie it was when I was a teenager, just like that's really catchy. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

But again, the song actually rules. Hang on.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

The song rips. I'm not crying, shut up, it's fine. Yeah, um, that was one of my notes, actually, Kate was like, I I remember you because you used to drive me to high school because we went to the same high school, and you were like, There's this musical, da-da-da. And I remember in the beginning, like not being able to tell between the different people singing, and you're like, this guy's this, and this guy's and so it was very much worldview-changing, and that like, oh, this guy's gay, and this like and I was like, What is all this? Because of course I'm two years younger than you, and and eventually got used to the voices and the songs, and like it slaps so hard, it's so good. Yeah, um, but yeah, at like probably 15, it's like I know about rent and I've known rent, yeah, for for forever. So yeah, for you coming late to musical theater is like it's it's funny, it's like a different generation of musical theater.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's and it's very funny, it especially watching this and like knowing so much about rent and like learning like there there is there are a lot of references, there are a lot of things that resonate as far as like and and especially with you know, knowing that a lot of what Jonathan Larson was writing in both Tick Tick Boom and also in Rent was not if if not actually autobiographical, like very like inspired by and very rooted in. And it it so clearly is is a reflection of um of you know him. So it's just there were things, even though I'd never seen this movie before, there were things that felt familiar because I was like, oh, I know the other stories that this person has told. So spoilers for the end, I loved this movie. It was really good. I really liked it. Um, yeah. Um, I have I have a whole bunch of fun facts. Um yeah, and trivia and stuff. Um, so I kind of split it up into a couple different sections. So um just to start, this is, you know, like I said, based on um the semi-autobiographical musical of the same name um by Jonathan Larson. Um Jonathan Larson was a playwright and composer from New York. Um, he was most famous for um his musical Rent, which opened in 1996. Unfortunately, uh Jonathan Larson died of a brain aneurysm the night before Rent opened. And for me, that is one of the main things that I knew about Jonathan Larson. That it was, you know, like the tragedy of his death, like so closely linked to this play opening. Um, it just it was like that was one of the things that I knew about him as a person, basically. But the play specifically, the that this movie is based on, um, it is based on Larson's process of writing his musical Superbia. Every time I wrote it, I wanted to say Susperia. That's a different movie. Um, it's not that.

SPEAKER_04 17:38

I keep wanting to say superbia.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Oh, that is like yeah, Green Day. It's probably more real. Oh, Disturbia. Disturbia. All of our notes are wrong.

SPEAKER_06 17:52

I watch, I watch Fast and the Furious. You watch Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

I listen to Green Day. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

We have a shirt where it's all of these other ones crossed out and finally ends in the right thing. But um, yeah, so so apparently Superbia, um, uh Larson had wanted to adapt 1984 um and actually have it produced in the year 1984, um, and then did not get permission from George Orwell's estate. Um so he said, okay, I'll do something kind of different. Um, the play is set in the year 2064. Basically, the world is controlled by reality TV and the media. Um, people don't have emotions. So it's very, it's a lot like 1984, Brave New World, that sort of dystopian society thing. Larson set it aside to work on his other plays. Um, and he had planned to come back to it eventually. Um there, I went down a very fun rabbit hole looking at the what the plot of Superbia is. And apparently there are like three or four different versions of like kind of what the plot morphed into. Um, right now the general consensus is that it is too complicated and unpolished to possibly adapt. Um but apparently, like in um in the stuff that I was reading, Lynn Manuel Miranda had like possibly talked about like doing something with it, and everyone was like, no, we we can't. Someone had talked about making it an animated feature instead, and it's just kind of it's just kind of in limbo right now. Um, but I think the animated feature, they had talked about it maybe a couple years ago, like not long ago. So it's still, it's still out there sort of in space, but um, but yeah, so this is based on his process of trying to produce this musical and get it picked up and actually, like, actually have this be his hit. Tick picboom initially started as a quote rock monologue. Um, it was just Jonathan Larson and a piano on stage. There were no backing vocals or anything. Um, it was originally called Boho Days, which is one of the songs in the actual movie. It was a one-person monologue the entire time that he performed it. Um, the version and the instrumentation and everything that is seen now is was um revamped after after he had passed away. Um, the sort of three-person show version debuted in off-Broadway and 2001. Raul Esparza was the main character in that. Um, he's Raul Esparza's done everything. Like he's like, he was in company, like that's the big thing, but like he's he's like the guy. Like he's just been in everything. The Wikipedia article for um Tick Tick Boom, the stage play, is wild because there are so many different runs of it, especially like very short runs. Um, Neopatrick Harris was in a couple different short ones, it looks like, um, playing Jonathan. But specifically the one that I wanted to highlight was um one that happened in uh at for the New York City Center's Encores um set, where basically it's sort of redone versions of you know of uh existing musicals and just recast. Um Lynn Mamuel Miranda was Jonathan with uh Leslie Odom Jr. and Karen Olive. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 21:12

What?

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Yeah, so and going through the cast of this, so many connections specifically with Lynn Mamuel Miranda, specifically within the heights in Hamilton. Um yeah, just so, so much just like intertwining of the musical theater world, especially from like 2014 on. Um, so it was just, I don't know, researching this was a lot of fun for me. It was just sort of bringing back all those names that I used to know, which is fun. Um but yeah, so um that, you know, clearly Le Memo Miranda's connection to this as a play um for adapting it. Um, this is his film directorial debut. He uh also worked with um writer and executive producer Steven Levinson, who was the writer of Dear Evan Ham. So specifically in that era of you know massive hits, them working on it. The two of them did a bunch of extra research for the movie, um, not just about, you know, not just about the the musical itself, but about Jonathan Larson's actual life. Um, his sister Julie was one of the producers, uh, or Jonathan's sister Julie was one of the producers. Um, she specifically asked them not to sanitize his character um and leave and make it, you know, the truest portrayal of this. Um, Roger Bart, who was friends with Jonathan Larson, um uh specifically said um Jonathan was a pain in the ass. Um, and that needs to come through in this movie. Everyone was like, no, he he sucked a little bit. Like, you know, this needs to be a real version of it. And honestly, in the movie, it absolutely comes through, which I I don't know. I like, I like that as sort of a a tribute. It's like, no, this it's like the joke of, oh, you know, this person lit up the room. It's like, no, they didn't, don't say that about me. How dare you?

SPEAKER_06 23:01

I watched a YouTube video getting prepared for this, and the what the guy doing the the video was like, what if we did Greatest Showman but didn't lie as much?

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Oh, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_06 23:15

I was like, Yep, that's that that covers.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

I almost didn't watch Greatest Showman because I was like, I have a lot of feelings about P.T. Barnum as a human, and then I was like, this musical's great.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

I can't be mad. Zach Efron came back to musicals. I my high school musical girl Heart had to go. I was like, I have to see this.

SPEAKER_06 23:34

The story itself, just you know, you can just skip it. Exactly. Skip the story.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Soundtrack done.

SPEAKER_06 23:40

That's not what we're here for.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Slap soundtrack rules, it's so good. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, so um, as as we mentioned, this did come out in 2021. Um, the um filming started in March of 2020. It filmed for eight days and they had to shut down. Uh their last day of filming was March, March 12th of 2020. Well, there was this crazy little thing. Have you heard of coronavirus? Um, I don't know why I said it like that. Um I don't know. Um sounds fake. Um, but yeah, so uh they filmed for eight days and shut down. Um they were able to start production back up in September of 2020 over under incredibly strict COVID precautions. Um, and then they finished in November of 2020. So everything else was done in two months. Um, one of the big changes that was that they had to make, um, partially they uh couldn't film in some of the locations that they had planned on using. Um one of them they had uh planned to go to the life cafe from rent. Um yeah, so instead of doing a lot of the other scenes like out sort of in the world, they sort of used the replica of the diner. Um the diner was sort of where they focused a lot of that. Um but one of the big changes that they had to make was that as you remember, it was just a lot of not trying, you know, not breathing on anybody. Um so singing was absolutely out. Um, most people were uh lip-syncing, and so they recorded a lot of the singing after like ahead of time and then played it back essentially. Um there were apparently there was one point where I don't remember, oh gosh, I can't remember what song it was, but there was something where um Andrew Garfield like spontaneously started singing. Um, and Limwell said uh Limimo Miranda said that everyone got in trouble, basically. It was just like the the COVID precaution people were just like, what do you what no, he's not allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

Um This is a musical, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

It was just like, but no, we can't do that. Um the uh the scene uh specifically um Boho Days, uh the little song where they're all in the apartment. Um that one was recorded live because there is just no way that you can do that lip-synced and figure it out. Um everyone had to quarantine for 14 days ahead of time before that one. Um, so that was, you know, that level of quarantining, that was how they got around being able to film a lot of those things. But the I think they said that one of the only scenes that was entirely live and no lip syncing was um uh Jonathan at the piano on the uh at the theater in the park or the Shakespeare on the park stage. Um so, you know, completely isolated, like able to actually, you know, actually be there outside. But it was it was interesting reading, you know, a lot of that and bringing back all those memories. The last note I did find uh specifically about filming was that during this time, uh Andrew Garfield had been cast in Spider-Man No Way Home, um, and he was doing a bad job of lying about it. Um apparently Lemonwell Miranda asked him directly if he was in Spider-Man, and he gave a very non-convincing answer. Um, and then all of those interviews of just him like awkwardly dodging the fact that he's in it and just doing a real bad job. Um He's almost as bad as Tom Holland. It truly, they're made for each other. It's great. Tony McGuire's like, I'm the only one keeping it together, you guys.

SPEAKER_06 27:09

Would really love for the two of them to just do a press tour for something. I don't care what it is, whether it be Spider-Man or anything, and just not be able to hold it together.

SPEAKER_05 27:17

I just tell all the secrets.

SPEAKER_06 27:22

That's a good idea. So you getting fitted for any suits here, uh blues.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

So I heard, and you just start sweating. Just pouring it.

SPEAKER_06 27:34

Good thing you're already in New York, right? Because you're gonna be filming there a lot and just like stares at them.

unknown 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:38

Just like looks at oh god.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

But yeah, and then uh last couple of things. Um, the cast, um, we have Andrew Garfield, obviously. Um, we have Alexandra Ship, um, who I knew I recognized her. She was in Barbie. Um, she was Barbie, one of the many Barbies. Um, I could not clock why I knew her, and then I was like, oh, that's that's it. Um we have Vanessa Hudgens, obviously from high school musical. Um Joshua Henry um is uh Roger, the um third person of the the sort of stage musical trio. Um he was in the original cast of In the Heights, and he was also in the Hamilton Touring Company. Um Robin De Jesus is uh the actor who plays Michael, was in the In the Heights original Broadway cast. Um and the there are so many cameos, um, but one person I wanted to highlight was uh Michaela J. Rodriguez, who is um, oh gosh, what is her name? Uh Carolyn, um, the woman who works at the diner. Um, she right now is in, well, at the time of this recording, um, is in a Rocky Horror show on off Broadway. Since we just got tickets for a Broadway thing, I am getting mail for it now, and I just got an advertisement for the Rocky Horror show.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

And I'm like, Oh, that's right, you bought the tickets.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Yes, and I was just like, I didn't know about this before, and I wish I had known because I'm like, but we don't have time for a third Broadway show. We're busy.

unknown 29:12

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

But um, but yeah, those are those are my fun facts. We can get we will get to all of the cameos um when they pop up. Oh, and the last thing, sorry, um, Andrew Garfield won the Golden Globe for Best Actor um for this performance or for this movie. Um, and the movie was also nominated for best musical slash comedy at the Golden Globes. Um, it was nominated for a lot of other stuff. It didn't win too much, but specifically Andrew Garfield had won a couple different uh won and was nominated for a lot of stuff, um which I think was absolutely deserved. Like he did such a great job.

SPEAKER_06 29:45

I I am convinced that if this thing had released in theaters, that he could have taken home that best actor uh Oscar. This was the year that Will Smith won for King Richard, which I didn't see, but um, yeah, so I mean there were some powerhouses, I already because I have it up, because that was one of the things I wanted to bring up. So Will Smith, Javier Bardem, Benedict Hummerbatch, and Denzel were all also nominated. Um and again, I haven't seen all those other films, but I I do believe that and you know, musicals can be a little niche, but just because of Andrew and his ability, you know, just his in ability to endear himself to a crowd, I do think that maybe he would have he would have had a if this had released in theaters, he would have had a much better shot of winning, of taking home the Oscar because he's already got a Tony. So we gotta we gotta um we gotta get him that he got.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

Yeah, we gotta get him the rest of the way there. Did they say why it was Netflix specifically? Was it because of COVID or was it supposed to go to theaters at all?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Oh, I don't know, actually. I think it could have been just it might have just been a Netflix thing. I want to say it was specifically just a Netflix movie. Okay. Um, but I I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Like I know I feel like if it wasn't your fun facts would have told you that, like, you know, because like there were so many in that time of oh, this was supposed to go in theaters, but just kidding, it's on this now, or it's you can purchase it this way, or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Yeah, it's like was it was Netflix a constellation or was Netflix the plane from the start? Yeah, and I think I think it was it was probably it looks like it was Netflix from the start, but also like this is theatrical release.

SPEAKER_06 31:15

So it's released in like New York City, LA, you know what I mean. Sure. Probably.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah, which in 2021. Yeah, oh yeah, probably. That's probably what it was. But yeah, yeah, so that's those are my fun facts. I like it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:32

And Robin De Hayes, who says Michael, he is man, he he is a powerhouse in this too. He's he's great.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

Um I liked him a lot.

SPEAKER_06 31:40

Yeah, I also forgot Alexander Ship is also Storm.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

That's what I was looking up. She she's the new Storm in like all the the young whichever we're at with X-Men. Wherever X-Men started, she's the not Halle Berry one.

SPEAKER_06 31:55

But we're getting Halle Berry back, so I think whatever.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

I don't know the last X-Men movie I saw. I did not even remember that. Like, I think I had to look it up. I saw it and I was like like uh on her credits, and I was just like, I don't remember this at all. I was like, I'm different. I was like, I don't, I was like, I know you're Barbie. Hi Barbie, let's go. Which Barbie was she?

SPEAKER_04 32:19

I remember her. Was she the writer Barbie?

SPEAKER_06 32:23

Is what it says on her uh writer.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Oh, okay. I was like, was she the doctor one? Yeah, yeah, okay, cool. Okay, sweet. Yeah. Okay, I forgot I have to do the summary now. It's been a while. You were on the hook for two episodes in a row. I was, it was awesome. You had a nice little vacation. It was great not having to watch a movie for the first time. Okay, so we start with like immediate applause, and you're like, okay, this is about the stage. Like, if you guys didn't know this was a musical, it's very theater-y. So what I thought it because it so it starts off as like a recording, you know, like like that they keep going back to this um full screen recording a lot of the times as like uh I guess sort of like a callback or something, but it looks like Jonathan and he's doing to me, it kind of looked like stand-up because he was just talking, and I didn't realize at the time that this was supposed to be the play.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

Or the music, whatever, his his actual thing. And he keeps talking about this like ticking in his head. And so I like this I feel like they did it in a way, but I was kind of confused at first because like they were very much like two separate parts of this movie, which was like the actual musical and then Jonathan's life, and so it took me a while to figure out that. So we get a lot of like a home video, and then um the the voiceover says, like, this is his story before the Tony's the Pulitzer, everything before we lost him. So that's like prefacing that you know what happens at the end. Um, and then they the the woman said, Everything you're about to see is true, except for the parts that Jonathan made up. And I was like, I am so confused already right now. Like I and to this, to you know, to the end of this day, when I felt it, I was like, I don't know. I don't know what happened, like I'm not really sure what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

There's it reading a little bit more about it and like doing like the the research, like there is a lot more, like especially with like the friendships and relationships, like those like Susan and Michael are definitely like based on people and like doing that research, like that's what um uh Lim and Well Miranda and um oh I forgot his name, the writer, do do uh Steven Levinson. Um that was like some of the research that they were doing and sort of delving a little bit more into like not just like they have singing roles in this in this part that he wrote, but it's like who were these people?

SPEAKER_04 34:59

These were real people? Yes, like so so, but we don't know if those were like fully their name, like like his girlfriend was not named Susan. Yeah, like not necessarily.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

I know, and it's like some of it's like so close. Yeah, it's it's fascinating, but also it's like like Roger, like the the friend in in that trio, is Roger Bart, who is a human who like I know who Roger Bart is, and so I'm like, you know Roger Bart. Um uh da da da. Oh god. Uh producers. Um he's um is he Carmen? Yes, he's uh that and he's also uh the voice of um Hercules, the singing voice. Okay, oh yeah, I recognize his yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:46

Oh yeah, yeah. He's um um uh Roger Debris' assistant. Yeah, so it was Carmen Gia. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. So not Roger. Okay, right. I know things of like what the 2000s, because when that uh the movie was 2005, so it looks like yeah, like oh wow, yeah. Anyways, um we listened to that when we were a little young. We did what we did for most things. Let's go. So we're we're we're in it now. It's January 26, 1990. Um, we're in New York. He's got music, he's got a he's got books, he's got a cat. Um, he's writing an original dystopian rock musical. He talks about being rejected, and he is obsessing that the fact is he is turning 30 in a week and how that's a problem because he's older than Sondheim was when he got his break. He's older than Paul McCartney, he's older than his parents. This is a very, uh, now that I'm 37, a diatribe I had when I was turning 30, but it now it just feels silly.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Yeah. It's hard to, it's hard to look in your late 30s and be like, all right, bud. But it's like, yeah, I get it. I remember I remember being 29 and going, oh shit, okay. Yes. Yes. Oops.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Oops, almost 30. Oops, I didn't write a musical. Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

I forgot. I knew I forgot something.

SPEAKER_06 37:07

Yeah. I still suck at stand-up comedy. I'm still not good.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

And I don't really have any kids yet. Oh no.

SPEAKER_06 37:16

No, that part I took care of.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Well, okay, you, sure. That part I got to get. You get extra credit for doing it early, huh? I guess.

SPEAKER_06 37:27

I got something.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Who can say? So yeah, he goes on about uh his youth will be over forever. Uh what is there to show for it? And I'm like, oh my god, you were spiraling, and we're like five minutes into this movie. So then we get our first song. I think this is where I didn't realize I was like, oh, we're on stage with you know a piano and singers and musicians, and I was like, oh, there's an audience. So like this is what I didn't realize we were bouncing back and forth between the real musical. It is kind of jarring, yeah. It was at first because I just I didn't understand. Um, so I don't think my notes are so Kate, you'll probably have to help me out with like, oh wait, this is this was the stage versus this was the musical. Yeah. So yeah, literally, this is a song about turning 30, and I was like, woof. Like, I mean, like this is it was just I was like, this is a vibe that I cannot connect with anymore. But it was so, so manic.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Yes, it's very manic, but it's like I love it because it's also, I think in my head, like Jonathan Larson had written more musicals. And like, I think in my head, I'm just like, okay, like this, like, you know how like you hear, you hear Sondheim and you know like what that music sounds like, or you hear like Andrew Lid Weber and you're like, I know what, I know the vibe of this like musical. Like I hearing this first song, I was like, oh, this feels like this is what's rent. Yes, I was like, this is Jonathan Larson. I was like, oh, I didn't realize that it wasn't just rent, that this is just his style. And it just I don't know. Like I I'm excited to go back, like you know, jumping way far ahead. I'm excited to go back and watch this and just let it like wash over me and not take notes. Like I'm excited to just like let myself get lost in it and not have like knowing knowing like the jumping back and forth stuff, but like it's yeah, like the pacing of the song, it's like it's manic and it's fast, but it's like it's it's so exciting.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Like it just so many words and so many words in all of it. Yes, and yeah, I'd I'd say most of the songs were very much like, oh, this reminds me of one of the faster songs of Rent. Like this reminds me of, yeah. So um, yeah, that that is just his musical writing style, clearly. But uh yeah, I think I think paying attention to the words more than just like letting it, just hearing it, I think that did probably take me out a little bit of this.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

So so we'll see. Um so we find out that John works at a diner. Um, and at the same time, his friend, uh, I don't think we got his name yet. What but it was Michael, right? Is moving out.

SPEAKER_05 40:01

Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Um, but but oh wait, John's superbia workshop is coming up, and and they make fun that um, you know, oh, he hasn't talked about it enough. Like this is all Jonathan can ever talk about.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

He won't shut up about it.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

Yes. Like, oh, he hasn't mentioned it. Um this uh could be his big break. Was this still the same song? I was this still a song or was was the song over? Because sometimes they would cut into the song and then it would start again, and I don't know. Because I my next note is like cute roommate dancing in the apartment. And I was like, oh, this is fun, but I don't remember if it is still 39.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Yeah, I think it's yeah, it's still the same.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

Oh god, okay, okay. So this is the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Yeah, it fades out and then kind of cuts back in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Yeah, yeah. And I I should have annotated when that happened. So then we've got uh Jonathan talking to his girlfriend that he was like, Yep, gave my two weeks' notice, and she's like, What do you mean? Um like what why? Like, what's happening? It is it is expensive to make art in New York.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

It was true in 1990, it's even truer today.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

It's so true now. Yeah, I was like, this is this has not aged well. So so this is when we get. Oh my god, was this another song? I'm so sorry, my notes it says, you know, because I I said Vanessa because I didn't know her name. She's uh on stage, and then I was like, is this a stage performance? Um so we've got the the characters are Roger and Carissa, right? Yes. The characters of the other two singers on vocals. Okay. Um then next is this when John talks about Michael specifically, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:43

He talks yeah, he talks about Michael.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

Yes. How he was such a great actor in high school and he was gonna make it big and they were gonna go together and and be great and and be artists, and then he said he got tired of acting and got a fancy job at an ad company, uh-huh, which is is is very very wrench-coated in many ways.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

I was like, oh no, is Michael Benny? And I'm like, no, I think Michael is Benny in the There's definitely some Benny in there, and then like we get a little bit less, but it's like he's like three different characters, honestly. Yeah, yeah. Michael contains multitudes.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Michael contains personalities. I, yeah, according to Jonathan.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Oh, he's great. I love him.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

Yeah, no, he's really good.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

So uh John uh still doesn't have a roommate to fill the room that Michael's leaving and he needs the money. Um, because you know, what is he gonna do when Michael's not there to remind him to pay bills and stuff? And then uh then we go to a show because we were talking about Susan, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

Susan uh is the quote unquote girlfriend. We don't apparently Susan is multitudinous as well. Um, but she was a modern dancer. Uh 1990 was was the year. This is a big year for everyone. Uh she was gonna join a company, but apparently before that, she was gonna like be a doctor and do all you know science important things, but became an artist. Uh, but right before she joined the company, she fractured her ankle during a dress rehearsal. And after six months, she's dancing again, but it doesn't, it doesn't feel right. Like he says she feels lost. Although when we were watching, because we're like watching him watch her, and he's so enthusiastic. But do we feel like that was like a performative, like, oh my gosh, you did so amazing?

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Or I I don't think so. I don't think it's him being performative. I think and we get this echoed throughout the entire movie, but I think this is this is him saying like, what what else could you possibly want but being an artist?

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

And it's like she's she's be she's doing her art, and that's so exciting that she's still sticking with this.

SPEAKER_06 44:01

Yeah, because with with Tim, you know, uh of course he's already projecting that onto Michael, and then now that you know Susan is getting back back to it, he's like, Oh yeah, see, like everything is now right as well. Now I just gotta work on Michael, now I gotta get Michael back in here, and then everything will be alright. I'm just speaking from someone who like at one point a friend of mine wanted like both he and I to go to full-sale university in Orlando, Florida for like some music-related stuff. And then I was like, Yeah, and then I was like, that's not what I want to do, you know what I mean. And when I brought and this is back in high school, when I told him that, and you when you tell your high school friend you don't want to also follow them to whatever college it is that you're going to go to university, it's like the end of the world, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah, it's like, but what about our dreams?

SPEAKER_06 44:45

What do you mean? We are each other, yeah. So so whenever you have a you know, a a friend, or really somebody was in in your life, and you're both following that same passion, and then they fall off of that, um, you kind of feel like some sort of way about that. So now maybe he's thinking that you know, Susan's back into his maybe maybe now I can also show Michael, like, hey, this is actually the life that you want, you know, not the super nice apartment that we're gonna see a little bit later.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Yeah. Okay, that that makes more sense because it was like he said, like hearing from him that she felt lost, it was like she was still performing, and I am not an expert of modern dance at all. I can appreciate it, but I was like, it looked good. Like I don't, I don't know what we're what we're seeing or feeling or what he's seeing from her, or if that's because she's told him that she feels that way or what. But again, also he's he's like, Well, of course you want to do this, right? Right, right. So maybe it's a little projection, who can say?

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Yeah. And sometimes we get a little dissonance between the voiceover and it's like, here's what's happening. And then it's like, okay, but in the moment, like, what is Jonathan actually thinking versus what is like performer Jonathan on stage actually saying? Like, I feel like some I feel like sometimes it's like like we're getting like the different faces of it at the same time, too. And I think this might be one of those cases where it's like, yeah, she's going through a lot, and meanwhile, like Mike, like Jonathan in the moment is like, this is great, she's fine.

SPEAKER_04 46:12

Yeah, everything's fine. And then it throws like a huge party for her in his tiny ass little apartment.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

And uh, Susan and Michael are gossiping about him, saying that he's completely broke. And uh, but then Jonathan's over talking to his his diner friends, uh, and they're envious because they're all, I guess, also both artists, and they're like, oh man, I wish I was getting my big break of musical thing or whatever. Um, and the guy, I think Freddie didn't he say he like had an audition or something or something coming up.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

He got a call back for a for a gig on a cruise.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

Oh, that's right. And then and then they were like arguing about whether a cruise was a good idea, but it's it's an Alaskan cruise, so maybe not.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Yeah, it was like a Nordic cruise or something.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

He's like, no, I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_04 47:01

Yes. So then Jonathan gets serious and asks uh Freddie how he's feeling. And so this is our impetus where we we find out that Freddie has AIDS. Uh and he said, but he said he was he's feeling good. The doctor says uh his T cells are at the right place, like he's he's you know, they said, Oh, like you're looking better, like every everything's going swell, everything's going great. And then uh Roger, I get confused because Roger, the the the character in the show, the the movie. Oh my god. Yes, so confusing. Yep. Um, Roger brings a guy he ran into from high school and he's in like finance and he's clearly not an art guy. He sucks so much. Yeah, and Jonathan can tell, but like he stayed anyway, and Roger's like, I'm so sorry, he really wanted to come. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:55

So a person like your friend brings that person to the party that doesn't vibe.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Like, what do you why'd you bring them here? Why did you do that?

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Yeah, yeah. Just treating it like like like an anthropology trip where it's just like, man, what's everyone do? This is crazy that you guys live like this, and it's like, no, this isn't, no, you shouldn't be here. This is these aren't your people, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:16

Yeah. Or or Roger, say no, man. Like just be like, we're not friends. I don't know. It was just it was like, Roger, you know you messed up and you didn't anyway. Like, this is very obvious.

SPEAKER_06 48:29

Yeah, and I'm not, I didn't grow up a theater kid, but I also knew the theater kids in in school when they didn't want you around. That was they were very, very loud about that. So it's interesting to bring him along.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

Yeah, right. And then yeah, Jonathan has has no game face whatsoever. He's just like, cool.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:54

I'm I have to do things that are not talking to you right now.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Yeah. You get the great line from this guy, it's like, oh, you know what? Like, like, what do you do? What's your deal? And Jonathan goes, I'm the future of musical theater, Scott. And I was just like, just truly, this whole scene, I was like, this is exactly what we all thought being an artist was. I remember wanting this so badly.

SPEAKER_04 49:18

For sure. Let's see. So then we get our second song, the one that we talked about that was filmed there and sung there. Uh-huh. Because yeah, as soon as you said, yeah, they couldn't sing, I was like, How? How did they do this? Because it was also, was it also one camera shot?

SPEAKER_03 49:34

I wasn't paying attention, but it kind of felt like I don't know if it was one camera, but it was definitely like very clearly and and also I forgot I forgot to write this down. One of the things that they did is actually based on uh like based on pictures and footage, and because there's like a lot of like the handheld camera footage at the end, like there's a lot of like documentation of Jonathan Larson's actual life. So they recreated his actual apartment, including including like where a lot of his stuff like where things were, and like some of it was some it kind of fucked up. Some of it was from like insurance claims because he lived in a shitty apartment that did not actually have heat. And that like that is where he like where he passed away. And so there are a lot of like like there are a lot of records, like you know, that they were able to use to recreate it, but it's like it's a wild circumstances where they actually have that information, but like that's crazy that he was still in that apartment when rent was happening, yeah. Like that. Oh it said he'd been in that apartment for like it was like 10 years or something, like 10 or 15 years. Like it like he'd been there for a long time. Jeez, and had cycled through roommates just like that.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Yes, yes, so so we get our second song. Um, I don't have any of the names of the songs. Oh, I have them, but they okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

This this one is Boho Days. Boho Days.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

It was okay. I was like, they're talking about Bohemia, which is familiar to me. Um they're like, oh yeah, this is the great, this is the life. This is a great life. We we had all those random roommates, and you know, and it and I I really enjoyed this song. It was very fun. But uh at one point, and I don't know if it's because like Susan leaves, and I don't know if it's because he said something about having a kid, or if it was she was just like, I need to get air, either way, but uh she is like up on the roof question mark. I don't know how apartments work in New York. She she brings up a new job offer that she's gotten, and it's to teach and not to dance, correct? It's teaching dance, is that right? Uh-huh. Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, cool, cool, cool. So I think she brings it up, and then he like immediately changes the subject, and he's like, Oh, I could watch you dance forever. And I was like, You are such an asshole. Yeah, like this is terrible. So she's she tells him it's in the Berkshires, which again part of New York somewhere. I don't it foresty things. They they talked about people getting vacation homes there and stuff, so it's not it's definitely not Manhattan.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

Um, I looked it up. It is uh like uh segment of the mountains in Massachusetts and New York. So like it's yeah, so it's kind of like um lake houses and stuff it's just like basically straight north. Like you know how like New York City is like at like the the vertical line of where the state line is? It's like like directly north from there, basically.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

Okay, but very hotel. Yeah, yes, and and far away from what they were just singing about, basically.

SPEAKER_06 52:58

Yes, yes, art and music and everything that yeah, and all all the fun times that we're having and whatever.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

And she's like, Hey, I got a serious job offer that like you know seems legit and pays well. And he's like, What? Nah. But then he he you know gets distracted because she's wearing a really nice dress. Uh-huh. Um, but then during all of this, she's like, I already applied and I got the job. And he's like, What? What do you mean? Yeah. So then we cut to John and Michael confused driving in a car. Um, because Michael is also confused about her moving to the Berkshires. And I was like, But Michael, we're literally driving to your nice apartment. Why are you so confused? I know.

SPEAKER_03 53:43

He says that he says that is like so far from Midtown. And I'm like, yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

Yeah, it's not, yes. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

He's not wrong.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

And yeah, obviously they're like, well, John can't leave, you know. Uh so uh I think Michael's like, well, Susan should move in. Um and I don't I I don't remember the reaction to that. I think it was more just like, nah, basically.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Yeah, I think it it's kind of yeah, he doesn't really commit. Like it's one, it's one of many scenes where he is like asked a direct question and just kind of hems it.

SPEAKER_04 54:17

Non-committal.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

Yeah, it just kind of shrugs it off.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

Yeah, and it's like, well, if it's not obvious that you live want to live with your girlfriend, then like where where are you where are you in this relationship with Susan? Yeah, what are we? Like, come on. Yeah, I was like, I have this with me.

SPEAKER_06 54:35

I don't want you to find out in, but I also don't want you to move to the Berkshires.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

Yeah, yeah. I want you right where you are. Please don't ever change. Yeah. Or do anything different every year.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

This is sustainable and healthy.

SPEAKER_04 54:49

Yeah. I'm fine, so that means you should be fine, clearly.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

I'm not projecting.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

No, never. No. Not at all. So uh Michael brings up a um, oh, I can't remember what it was called.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

It was like a like a Oh, a focus, a focus group.

SPEAKER_04 55:08

Focus group, that's what it was. I was like, it was like a workshop, and it was basically like, oh, you know, they they want people to do jingle writing. And it's like, you do that already. Why don't you want to get paid for it on the side? Because he, because Michael and Susan are both trying to like have him figure out mostly Michael's trying to help him figure out how to get another income right now, because it's like you quit the diner. I'm just I'm just trying, I'm just trying, maybe, you know, maybe. Um, but yeah, Jonathan absolutely does not want to do that.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

This is also where we get that Michael just broke up with the guy that he was seeing. So it's like, hey, I'm not sure. He kind of brings him up and it's like, but you know, right, you're right.

SPEAKER_06 55:50

Yeah, the you get the back-to-back sense of between what Jonathan's relationship with Susan and Michael is, and that he's not a present friend. He's not a present uh partner on either one of these relationships, you know.

SPEAKER_04 56:05

So yeah, because he doesn't dig into what happened.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Yeah, and it's like the like the door is cracked, and then he's just like, oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 56:13

If only Michael would just talk to me.

SPEAKER_04 56:15

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 56:16

Weird.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

If he would just their fault.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Instead, he just shows me his cool apartment with a parking attendant.

unknown 56:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:25

And we get this crazy song about um living in the east side, and you know, this is the life, and and Michael's moving up in life and leaving Jonathan behind, but also he deserted the arts as well, so it's this very like you know, weird juxtaposition of he's doing better, but at what cost?

SPEAKER_02 56:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:50

And then at the end of the song, it it goes a little Chicago for me, where we're all like dressed up fancy in the apartment and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Yeah. This was a really fun sequence. I liked this one.

SPEAKER_06 57:01

Yeah, it's it's probably one of the better, um, one of the best um examples of them using the the fact that they're in a film space and not on a theater stage. And uh because I don't go back and listen to no more very often, but I do love watching the sequence in the film itself. Yeah. Uh because the song itself I don't really enjoy too much, but yeah, because they are able to um uh again le really lean into the fact that, hey, we got we got big film sets to use, we can use cutaways, we can do all that, and they do a really good job at that here at this point.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Yeah, it's also interesting to think that the stage production of this is just three singers. So like it's not it's not like there are like elaborate sets, it's not like there's a lot of set design. Like, this is all just like the maximally expanded version of what a lot of these songs are. And then, like, you know, when we're cutting back and forth to just, you know, the piano and a band and and two other singers on stage, it's like, oh, like seeing this on stage, you know, hearing the music would be really cool. This is nowhere near as it would be nowhere near as grand as as anything you're seeing in in the movie. So I think it's it's such a good, it's such a good use of of the medium, like you're saying, of like actually expanding that more.

SPEAKER_04 58:16

Now, I'm trying to remember, did they always at some point during the song cut to the stage projection of this? Because I don't I don't remember the performers in this one.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

I don't think they do in this one. Okay, no. Um, it's just the two apartments, I believe. Yeah.

unknown 58:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

Yeah. Okay. I should have kept track of that. I wasn't even thinking.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

No, it's okay. It's it's funny like comparing the list of like all of the songs that are included. Like most pretty much most of them are from like from the the play. Like most of them are included. I think there's only like a couple that are removed um or like changed. Oh, so they took some out, but they didn't add any, but they didn't like add new ones or anything. I think. Oh gosh, let me let me double check. I had looked at that and then I was like, I don't know. No, no, you're fine. Yeah, um uh yeah, I think there are like there are two that were removed, and then I think there's like one real life and sugar.

SPEAKER_06 59:17

Sugar was just the well, sugar is the part where Oh the little jingle.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 59:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Yeah. Oh, and then um her smile. And then uh Oh yeah. Yeah, I guess I guess those two, but then um da da da.

SPEAKER_06 59:34

Didn't they put an unfinished song and finish it for the movie? Am I am I misremembering?

SPEAKER_03 59:38

I think so I think so. So I know one of the songs, like uh there is a song about the green dress that she's wearing up on the roof, and they do like a different version of that song.

SPEAKER_06 59:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

Um like it's it's yeah, like it's played like in the early it's played like in the background, I think. Um That's right.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

Musical sequences. Now I I'm getting in the weeds. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Um, I think the only ones that got added, um uh L C D readout, um, the one that he's uh playing in the oh no, it's one of the ones from uh Suburbia. Um and then the Oh okay. Yeah, and then the uh the full thing from Suburbia is is that as well. Um the the sextet from that where it's like everyone singing at the same time, um, which is insane. Oh, those were added? Yeah. Um but that makes sense. Okay, yeah, but they're like they're from like uh his actual. Yes, um they felt it was important for the film to play uh play with the credit quote score by Jonathan Larson. And so they sourced many songs from the Library of Congress archives, including several that had never received an official release. It includes three songs from Suburbia, not included on the soundtrack. Um that's crazy. Yeah, it's it's crazy. Um okay, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I think it doesn't look like they've really added any. Yeah, no, they're good. No, they didn't write yeah, literally, it's just score by Jonathan Larson. Yeah, it bless. Oh my god. By the time this comes out, you guys will have heard that episode. Welcome.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:11

Woo! Okay. So so then we've got John talking to Ira Weitzmann, who is, I had to write this down, the head of musical theater at Playwrights Horizons. Yes. And he is the man who is uh giving him the shot to do this workshop, basically. He is the only reason this workshop is happening. And uh it is in six days, and they are talking about not coming up uh with a song. And and apparently it's this very important song that the the musical needs for uh a character named Elizabeth in the second act. And um Jonathan goes down uh kind of a rabbit hole where he's like, Well, actually, there was one person who told me that I should do this as well. And so we um we we reminisce about him doing musical theater workshops where to uh where you present it to real real theater person panel and it's a rotating panel, so you don't know who you're gonna get, whatever night, and the night that Steven Sondheim came in.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Played by Bradley Whitford, who does an incredible Stephen Sondheim.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:29

I I was about this. I was like playing a real person, I'm okay with this. Yeah. Yes. And it's only a panel of two, also, so I was like, okay, this is not as many people as I thought it was going to be. So the one guy, I cannot remember this actor's name, um Richard Kind is in so many things. There we go. Richard Kind was the other uh professional.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:49

He's so great in this. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

He's delightful. So it was unexpectedly comedic for me. And I was like, okay, like that's there was there was not not that much comedy in this. And I was like, okay, this was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:03

So the panel is divided. So the one guy is like, well, I don't, yeah, I don't know about the the story, like, it's not that great. And Steven's like, the world is great, you know, the details distract from the characters, first rate lyric and tune. Steven keeps going and going about how how great this musical is. Um, with uh we never even did we ever get the other guy's name with the other guy coming back and his uh Richard Kine's name, uh the character is Walter Bloom.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:34

Um he is a I'm sure that's a real person. I'm sure it is, most of them are. Um, but he is uh head of the musical theater workshop.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:42

Oh, okay. So he I mean they're they're incredibly divided, but as soon as Sondheim says something, he goes, Oh, yes, that's exactly we're saying we're saying the same thing differently. Yeah, it just just different ways. Like you hear it, right, don't you? Well, of course, of course.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:58

Also, this is apparently but the songs, the songs are not very good.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

But also, apparently, this is this is a re like this is actually the feedback that Steven Sondheim gave him. Steven Sondheim was actually one of his very close like mentors and collaborators, like collaborators, but like like mentored him and was a supporter of uh Superbia. Like in the crazy, yeah, like like this is like actually like some of the stuff that he was saying. Like it's this is real, like this actually was real.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:28

No, no, yes, this part's real. I I honestly didn't think they would make this up. I was like, Steven Sondheim is a real, a real big person. Like, we're not, I mean, it's crazy that this happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:37

But and he was still alive when they were making this movie. Like, they can't just say, like, Stephen Sondheim said this. He's like, I said what? You mean I did not.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:44

I excuse that was funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:48

Yes. So, yeah, so so Jonathan specifically focuses in on first rate lyric and tune. He said, That kept me going for two years. Uh-huh. But then at the end of the workshop, uh Steven, you know, takes him aside and he's like, Hey, this is really great, but Elizabeth is missing this song. And, you know, it it's very pivotal, and and you need to like basically find it. But then we get back to uh the the real conversation at hand with uh Jonathan and Ira.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:20

And uh Jonathan finds out that he's only getting a piano. Yeah. And he's like, What do you mean? This is a rock opera.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

I wrote a rock score.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

Right. And and yeah, Ira's like, well, music should sound good no matter what, but said he will try to get more musicians, but also, you know, that's more money. So can you come up with more money? And then uh Ira brings up, hey, have you spoken to Rosa, your agent yet? Uh has she sent out the RSVPs? Nobody, like, nobody says they're coming. Yeah. And then this is this is actually, I think, either the second instance. I started writing down when he hears the ticking.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:58

Yeah. Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

Because uh I tried. Uh the first one was when she uh uh Susan was dancing and he was applauding. And then we hear at this time he's writing uh or he he's attempting to write a song in his apartment. And then he just starts cold calling so many people, important people, to come to his showcase. And it sounds like he's getting through to a lot of them and like like making connections and something, which this is so of the era that this was made or that that this was originally written and it happened, because you don't do that shit today. No, that would never happen today. You couldn't get people's numbers like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

No, it's also peak procrastination, though. It's like, hey, you have to write a song, and he's like, okay, but what if I wrote the word every employment? What if I wrote the word the and then found 30 phone numbers? It's like, hey, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

And also like the fact that these people are answering at night, I'm like, that's not real either now. Truly, no. Yeah. Like people don't, you know, even if they have their cell phone, they're not answering it for a work call this late. Everyone is closed. Thank you very much. The transition was weird here, because then it was like suddenly Michael, Susan, and John were watching uh Sunday in the park with George on PBS. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:19

I think I think it might just be like like they all came, like they both came over just to hang out.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:27

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:29

Cause they were, you know, just saying how like I remember the one like PBS should like have you know play like every musical. Like they should have every musical out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:38

Honestly, agree. Hard agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:41

Oh, for sure. Well, I um I they're recording more, I feel like.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

I think so too.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:47

But not fast enough, I think. Yeah. And then and then don't they leave or something? Because J John still has to write his song. Yes. Oh, that's right, they're leaving, they're like, you have to write. And then he like has the TV on and he sees like politicians talking about the AIDS epidemic.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:06

And basically if gay men would just stop doing what they're doing, then it wouldn't be there. And you're like, that's that's not that's not right. That's not the thing. This no. Say we get some North Carolina uh representation from fucking Jesse.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

So mad.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:21

So mad I was like, no. North Carolina, really? It was like, we We get one mention in this movie, and it's this.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:31

Yeah, we had to get come on. So this was one of the times I didn't write this every time, but the Jonathan um he's like, you know, keeps notes with him on this like little notepad, and he wrote down something, you know, about about this with the politicians. I guess Susan is still there because she, although time is kind of fluid in this, in this, like at some point he's writing, she brings him tea. He's like, Oh my god, thank you. This is amazing. And then she's like, Hey, the job. They need an answer by Wednesday. I'm assuming it's like Monday, because he's like, Hey, can we put it off for another day? Like, can we can we do it till tomorrow?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:11

Yeah, that feels right because it's all it's also like this is all like a span of like a week because it's like right. Yeah, because it's right before his birthday.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:19

And the birthday and the workshop.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:21

Yeah, the workshop and the birthday, yeah, within it. He's starting 30 in a week and all the yeah, yeah, all this stuff. So um, so he puts it off not awesomely, nobody's thrilled about it, and then and then we get the ticking again. Yeah. And then we have a song. But this is where I think we we focus a lot more on the stage production. We cut back and forth a lot more. Because I think this is when I kind of I think I kind of realized that we're mirroring the same. I feel like I was kind of lost in this. Yeah. I think so. I don't know. I I maybe I don't know if this clicked with me as well as it did for you, Kate, because I was I felt kind of lost through some of this. But the song, you know, they kept repeating, like, you know, Johnny has no guide, Johnny wants to hide, but then they're like, oh, you know, we're talking about Susan. Susan's done with art, she wants a life with him. Can he settle down and still not drown? Michael has it all. So it's like literally like talking about this situation. So I think that was when I was like, wait, wait, I think these are we're talking about what's going on in the actual I think these are the same guy. Wait a second.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:28

He's the guy from the thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:31

Yay! No robot becomes real pointing, going, hey, but what's confusing is you see Roger and Caressa at John's apartment. So I'm like, wait, hold on. I'm yeah, this is hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Yeah, and it's I think especially like thinking about it in terms of like when this musical is uh is you know being put on, the musical is being put on like four years later or something. Right. Like that later. Yeah, yeah. So it's like like time is very squishy anyway.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:02

Superbia is the workshop we're doing, but then tick-tick boom takes place so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:06

It's currently happening exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But and I think all also I did, since I was the one picking out facts and stuff, I had looked at like cast and like a little bit. So like I did have Wikipedia up like the whole time. So I was like, I did not. Yeah, and and I think, and normally when I when I like when I'm doing synopsis, I don't usually do that. So I think that is the main like it definitely helped having like sort of the framework of like this is a musical, but it's also kind of a thing, and it's kind of about him, but it's also a fake version, and I'm just like, okay, I'll figure it out. Let's let's see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:44

But it's good to know that ahead of time. I if you're looking at it critically. I think if you're if you're just watching it to be a musical to watch, I don't think it matters as much. But I was a little lost. Yeah. Um, clearly because my notes are weird. So, yes, this is uh a song about currently what's happening. Not not to, you know, push the point anymore down. John's kind of lost. Like Susan knows what he wants, Michael knows what he wants, but you know, neither one of them is pursuing the art that Jonathan thinks is the best thing in the world anymore. Um, and you know, he's kind of lost.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:17

Uh, with like writing down all of the questions and stuff, this is like the one where I like like I I didn't write down many of them, but like this is the one where he's like, you know, in traffic and he starts like you know, sees the posters with the pink triang triangle and it says silence equals death. Um and sp and specifically with that, like the question he writes is why does it take a disaster for things to change? And reading that question, like I just it it's such a good question, and I was like, oh shit, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:46

I like your 2026 mind as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:48

Exactly, exactly. I was just like, uh-huh, okay. Like I'm I'm tired of watching older things that are still so relevant. I feel like we keep doing that. We yeah, it's like, oh man, this is uh it's it's like speed. That was ridiculous. No sorry. I was sorry, you were being serious. No, you're right. No, no, not at all. You're totally fine. Yeah, it's I think I don't know. I just think it was I mean, even you know, in 2021, like not long ago, like I feel like that I feel like the a lot of these sentiments about, you know, the world and change in general, like it's they're still just as fucking relevant as they were.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:29

So yeah, yeah. Not much has changed in almost 40 years-ish. Nope. Uh so so to kind of transition into that, uh, we're at the diner, but um, what was his coworker? Uh Carolyn tells uh John that uh oh Freddie, Freddie's in the emergency room. Like he he couldn't, he got a fever, he couldn't stop shivering. Um and and John is just like in complete shock. Like, this doesn't make sense. He was fine four days ago, he was fine. You know, the doctors said, you know, like like that, like by all accounts, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:09

Um, so they both kind of get like, you know, worked up, but then Jonathan kind of seems like he's just like pushing it down, like he will be fine, like everything will be okay, he will be fine. And that's like you cannot be that confident in that. I guess what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:24

Yeah. It sounds like he's trying to cheer up Carolyn. Like it seems like it's try it's it's him trying to, you know, put on a brave face and to like make make her feel better. So I think like, you know, whatever he's trying to do for like he's good at like, you know, deflecting and swallowing it down, but I think like outwardly talking and saying, it's fine, you know, he's gonna be, you know, he'll he'll be back before we know it. Like I think that is just seeing Carolyn distressed and trying to help her, which I think is you know what we get of his character. Like he's trying to help.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:56

Yeah, and and then minimizing it, you know, like, hey, he left us alone on brunch Sunday, you know what I mean? Like and trying to keep her in in the right-head space because he knows even though that is happening in their lives, what's about to happen at their job is not going to pause, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:12

So yeah, it's more uh helping other people when you can't help yourself, because it's like he spirals so much of this movie, you can hear you know hear it in the songs and in his thoughts and everything like that. But I guess trying to stop her from doing it in her own mind or her own sense, but then literally the next song is like him kind of, you know, not necessarily spiraling, but like obsessing. Um because uh again, the ticking increases, uh, his thoughts begin to spiral about all the stuff, like you like between you know, caring, between being a good friend, like I should be at the hospital, I should be writing, I should be with Susan, I should be all these things. But it's Sunday brunch and we're super busy, so time moves on. And uh yeah, this song was crazy, and it took me a little bit to figure out. I was like, wait, I know some of these people. You sure do. I looked up a whole thing afterwards, but okay, so the ones that I actually noticed were I Lynn Manuel is so his voice is just so obvious. Even that one line is the cook. I was like, that's I know. I didn't even see him. And I was like, I know who that is. And then the two women took me a couple times to be like, hey, Hamilton, yes. Um uh didn't um, yeah, I don't know their names. Um but I was like, I know you two. And this, of course, was before I knew that Lynn Manuel Miranda was the director, had no idea um this whole time. Yeah. Uh and then so Burnadette Peters, an obvious one for me. Yes. And then I caught Adam Pascal. Yeah. I did not catch the other two at the time, but I went, I went back and looked. Uh and then, yeah, my my notes get increasingly capitalized in question mark, and the end of it is like, what the fuck is this? Like, what is happening? Because I was like, oh, these products, I was like, Bernadette Peters, five question marks. Adam Pascal, I was like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:12

My Bernadette Peters has three question marks. Yeah. Thank you. I'm right there with you. Yeah. Like I skimmed it, but it was like, there are so many cameos, and I saw the whole block and I was like, I'm just gonna, I wanna be surprised. I'll pause it. And then I was just like, I was so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:28

Um, yeah, I I found a thing and it and it told me what uh someone was from for each one. And I was like, thank you, because I don't know some of these people.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

Yeah, no, that's that's great. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:37

Yeah, so go ahead, do your if you want to do your thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:39

Yeah, totally. Yeah. So the and it's funny because a lot of the names like I recognize, but it and like I recognize faces, but I was like, I could not tell you exactly what this person was in. Um but yeah, so this song specifically, it's we get Limimo Miranda in the kitchen immediately. Um, the first the first cameo that I had clocked was him. Um but in this one we get um Andre de Shields, we got Bibi Newworth, uh Beth Malone, Brian Stokes, Michael, Cheetah Rivera, uh Chuck Cooper, Howard McGillen, Joel Gray, who took me a second to clock him. Um Renee Elise Goldsbury and Philip Asue. Um, we get Felicia Rashad and Bernadette Peters. Um and then uh out like once the fake wall of the diner falls down, we also get Adam Pascal, Daphne Rubin Vega, and Wilson Jermaine Heredia. Umless people I know from Rent. Um, beautiful. Um yeah, like literally clocking Adam Pascal immediately. I'm just like, you right, he's so obvious.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:40

Even with the gray hair, he and then Daphne, I was like, he does. Yeah, and obviously Wilson Jermaine Heredia, like harder to tell. Yes. And then Daphne Rubin, I was like, because she was not in the movie, I could not recognize her as fast. And I was like, but I think you probably played Mimi. I like, I think you're me. Yeah, that was me too. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:03

Yeah. Um, also, so apparently, um uh Daphne Rubin Vega's costume um included a pair of shoes that she wore on stage in the original production of Rent. Um and a and a black hoodie that once belonged to Jonathan Larson. Aw, cute. Um also since uh with those uh with the three of them being in the movie, um uh Limonwell um invited them to come and see the replica of um of Larson's apartment after it was put together because um uh like they you know met Jonathan Larson like when he was working at the diner and when he was living in the submarine. Yeah, they were there. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:42

Um apparently um I can't even imagine what it was like walking into that.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:47

Yeah, they so specifically they like they talked about it and said just it was it was incredibly surreal, like it just felt like being somewhere haunted, but it was like it was still so familiar at the same time. But yeah, um also this is how I found out. Um so apparently um Jesse L. Martin, who was in the original production of Rent, um worked at the Moondance Diner with Jonathan Larson. Um he was uh yeah, Jonathan Larson trained him uh how to wait tables. Um, and that's where they met. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:19

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

Um also I'm not gonna get into like so much of it, but um, along with like a lot of like the background and like the connections and stuff, um, including a lot of like the who characters are based on, um, there is apparently just an entire book, you know, just talked more about like the rest of Jonathan Larson's like life and plays and stuff. It is called Boho Days, um, the wider works of Jonathan Larson. And I am fascinated and I think I'm gonna try to find this book now because I just all of this amount of information of just like here's what the here's like this person's actual life and how it like was directly reflected in this work. Like, I just I'm so I don't know. This set me down such a rabbit hole. I'm like, I want to learn more of this.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:02

I want everything. I know honestly, like I don't know if this stuck with me as much, but watching this, I was like, I want to listen to Rent again. I was like, this is this is where my brain goes. I was like, this was very interesting and exciting, but I was like, I just want to go back to Rent. Like I was just kind of waiting for them to like tease it a little bit at the end or something. Like this is like to play Yeah, I don't I don't know. Yeah, so it's the cameos.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:30

Yeah, it says at one point um Jonathan plays a little bit of the intro to One Song Glory. I listened for it and I never picked it up. I never heard it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:41

I was trying to hear something, but yeah, I I didn't hear anything. Um but I also didn't realize at the time that Tick Tick Boom was between Superbia and Rent. So it's like, why would he play something from the musical that's not the next one happening?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:58

The one he hadn't written yet, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:59

Right. Yeah, that's so well because you know how like a movie is like, you know, they do they, you know, an artist is like stuck on a thing and then eventually like the song comes to them or whatever. And I was like, I don't think that's gonna be it, but I was waiting for it to happen.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:13

Yeah, because because especially like like trying to figure out what the missing song is, like all we get is like him sort of writing songs about everything else in his life and writing songs about nothing, and it's like no, come back. Like, where where's the is it? What is it? Yeah, yeah. And then it's just like writing the same word over and over on the on the computer, and I'm like, hey door, yeah, and I'm like, and honestly, and so honestly, sometimes that is writing, it's writing three words, deleting two of them, and then closing your laptop and being sad for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:42

Also, we love uh we love a practical set as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:46

Yes, so oh yeah, that was very cool. Um so then uh we get Monday morning. So I I don't know what time is. Um because we're uh it's Sunday now. I what's happening?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:00

Oh yeah, because it was okay, yeah, because it was Sunday, so then it's yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:05

So I guess she had plenty of time. Susan had plenty of time to answer the the not plenty of time, but she had like you know five days and not like two days. I don't know. Either way, he put her off. So still rude. Like still not not not the best thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:18

Oh yeah, John John's still the bad guy here. It's still him, it's still on him.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:24

Um so so the workshop starts. Like this is the big day. Um but we get this rare it felt random.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:34

This rap song shot like a 90s music video with the full screen um about I don't even know what, like about New York basically, or like I if I'm not mistaken, this was not in the original musical because But they had a video of him doing it. Wait, was it? Well they had him in the pink hat.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:58

I mean, maybe it was Andrew Garfield, but I I thought they put in Oh, right at the very end.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:04

Yeah, I and the credits.

unknown 1:24:06

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:06

Yeah, the very Oh maybe it wasn't, maybe I just got confused about stage in real life again.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

Out of context, that's such a crazy thing to say. It's just like, yeah, I don't know. I forgot what was I forgot what was real life. What was real life? I don't know, it's real.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:22

I'm on the stage all the time, obviously, in my life. Yeah. Oh gosh. The theater, who can who can remember? But yeah, I I don't know. I don't a hundred percent know whether this is in the original musical. Um, but uh this is Tariq Trotter, um, better known as Black Thought from uh The Roots. Um Whoa! Yeah, so he um basically this is it's just about how Broadway and and theater, like it's it's just down to like you know, numbers and finances and what people think will sell, um, and not not actually not valuing the art. Um, but I really enjoyed a lot of the posters that they're that they're showing. Um one of them is gypsy again, um, a mediocre movie, now a mediocre musical, white guys, white people arguing about marriage, old songs you already like. Um it's just it's delightful. Yeah, and and this is where I uh where I wrote it down. It I think it is it is Andrew Garfield uh rapping and doing that. Um it's not like the the credits.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:32

You're right, yeah, yeah. But it was like it was funny because it was like this is what he wants the version to be. Yes, is the guy from the roots, but the actual stage version that people get is him in a pink hat doing this. It's so bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:46

It's the the white Jewish guy doing that, and everyone going, ah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:51

Don't oh maybe don't, but okay, that's fine. Yeah, yeah. And then the segue back to real life saying, I'm reading for old Deuteronomy. Oh my god, that's right. Yeah, he walks in, yeah, which vibes.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:07

So so first day, I was there. John is obviously nervous. Um, so he's got, you know, decent amount of musicians, and uh Jonathan's like, okay, you ready? And he couldn't any questions? The woman's like, yeah, what is it about? What's the story? And he's like, What do you mean? And then I think at one point the guy was like, Aliens? And he's like, No. He's like, Oh, I thought it was aliens. Right? So, so I wrote it down because he because I was like, There's no other place I'm gonna get, and I wasn't gonna look up a description yet. Um, and it was a satire set in the future on a poisoned planet Earth where people spend their lives staring at screens, watching reality TV, human emotion has been outlawed. The first musical for the MTV generation. And then, yeah, then a guy's like, Aliens, and he's like, No, it's not in space. Like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:58

Um, so clearly there's some issues with the story, which we, you know, kind of figured already, but it's funny to hear the people performing it say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:09

Jonathan says he wants a bit like a band, a real band, and then Iris, like, you only have 12 RSVPs, and he says, find money somewhere else for a band. And we we see that uh Freddy is still in the hospital, and the hospital rooms are like the he's in the room basically with another man. Yep. Um, so they're like, like, I guess either to say that like they're crowded or he's not getting the best care, or like it's like it's not a good situation, basically.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:40

I would say in the 90s, that's probably just everyone with AIDS is being sent to the same section because it's yeah, just isolated. No, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:48

Yeah, think about that. Yeah. Okay. Either way, yeah, like uh of the time, but not great. So I think did Jonathan go see him? Is that what, or or was it just Caroline? That went to see him. I can't remember if he was in the hospital or not. I can't remember. Because then he he goes on to talk about, you know, I went to three funeral roles last year. You know, the oldest person was 27.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:12

Yeah. I think he I think he did go, but like it seems like he's gonna give himself. I think he may have gone by himself, but it seems like it like he didn't stay long. It's like it's the kind of thing where it's like he's showing up, but it seems like maybe he's not actually devoting a lot of quality time because it's sure. Okay, I have to do this, but then I also it's like I have 30 other things I'm thinking about. So right.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:37

Well, yeah, as as like the stream of consciousness throughout this entire musical was anxiety-inducing in some ways, but also very real. Um, but also very uh self-centered and focused inward. And so you're like, I can see like you're a very flawed person in many ways, but you know, you think you're you're right. But we get, you know, the Easter egg of uh, and we knew that he had named people in his musical uh who died of AIDS for his friends, Pam Gordon, and Allie. We named those. Uh he says that Freddie's only 25, and he, you know, goes on about like nobody is doing enough. Like you're like, I'm not doing it, like nobody is, which feels very like correct. Like he's the one thinking correctly about this issue at this point. We get uh the ticking again. Uh there's three days left until the workshop. We're spiraling again. Uh oh, and then then this is when we get one of the real songs, right? From from Superbia. Yes. Yes, we do. Yeah, so it's like, and and this is when I wrote, it's it's very Jonathan Larson.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:52

So that's when I was like, oh yeah, like this is like it's just like the fast type, like the the Yeah, really rhythmic, very fast-paced, a lot of different voices, a lot of like overlap. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:03

But very clever words, and and so um, uh, so yeah, so he's practicing and and Susan stops by because it's Tuesday, and they need an answer by tomorrow, and she needs to talk. I have a chat. And Jonathan refuses to leave and take a break, and he's like, Can you ask for an extension? And she's like, just doesn't answer. So he he walks away to tell the pianist like a note or something, and when he looks back, she is gone. Which yes, vibes Susan. Like, why yes, do that. Understandable, yeah. John just fully goes into musical mode. I'm not gonna deal with my relationship, I'm not gonna handle any of that. Because um, the next thing we see him doing is uh selling things to try and get enough money to pay for his musicians.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:56

Then we've got uh This is when Michael calls him too. Yes, yes, because he wants to take him to lunch. Uh, because he's like, Oh, I want your advice on some stuff. But then, you know, John blows him off and he's like, no, like I can't basically, but he's like, but wait, what what about that uh that that money thing, that job thing? Can I can I do that? Can I have it? Um, yeah, can I have it? So uh, so then uh we see that um John gets enough for a rock band, they're playing the music. I was like, oh my gosh, you are right. This does deserve a rock band. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:34

He gets validation, and so he's still insufferable.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:38

One of the I was gonna say, what if maybe maybe the worst thing to give him at that time?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:42

Especially that day. It's like, no, he doesn't need he doesn't need the boost right now. Don't give him that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:49

Yeah. Yeah. Poor Ira doesn't know what he's doing. No. Um so we get this nonsense song, the 31st Annual Face Awards. And I was like, Yep, this feels too real. Yeah. Um this feels like social media. Yeah. We've got Carissa, who is in this showcase later in other musical, but she's here now. She, I guess, is playing Elizabeth, and she's like, How about that new song? And he's like, Yep, it's coming. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:20

Dot dot dot. So, so apparently in the the stage production, um, they bond a little bit more like outside of this. So it's like Caressa is a little bit more fleshed out and like they're actually friends. Like she's she's cast in in Superbia, and then they like become a little bit closer. So then it like it makes a little bit more sense that like later she's like more involved in the musical itself. But yeah, right now she doesn't she doesn't have too much of a character. I love that she has a single lot. I love that she's like involved, but it's like yeah, they don't give her too much to do, really.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:55

I really did expect more from Vanessa Hudgens' character. Because when I was like, well, surely she's a star in that No, which fair. But I feel like she was highlighted a lot more than maybe some of the other people, besides Andrew Garfield, that did more in this musical. I if I did see anything about um the people who play Susan and Michael, I don't remember, and I'm like, you're more important, you're a bigger role anyone else that was advertising this. But I mean, Vanessa Hudgens pulled me in, which is smart, but I was like, I really thought you were gonna do more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:31

I'm sure it has to do with the film presence versus the stage presence. Like the the people in original Broadway casts, if you know, you know when you're gonna go see it. And anyone else, it's just like, ooh, this this famous person's in it. And it's like, okay, here this is we gotta get them both. We gotta, you know, we gotta cater. So I feel like the it's like when we were in high school and knowing people who like knew who was gonna be in Broadway shows, and they were like, this person's starring in this, and then after that, this person's gonna take. And it's like if you had someone who knew stuff, you knew it. And outside of that, it's just like, oh, this actor that my mom has seen on TV is in this, and then we're like, that's the only reason you would know. I'll go see it, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:17

And it's so it's so hard with I feel like Broadway and musicals and off-Broadway, because it's like once you fall out of it, you are gone, like you are lost for so long. And like getting back into it literally, because I mean the this will have already happened, but Kate and I are planning a trip to to New York and looking at musicals and everything, and I was like, I am so out of the loop as far as what's new and popular and who everyone is. And yeah, I knew these names like 15 years ago, that they're probably not doing anything anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:44

And yeah, it's like I wonder if so-and-so is in that no, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:48

So, um, yeah, it's now you're seeing, you know, and it's a whole it's a big topic now within the community where you're getting these limited runs from big names, and it you know, there's a whole conversation that can be had outside of that, you know what I mean? So um, so it's it's hard because you you could catch a show, people will and and knowing this, we're also working at uh a ticketing company that um ticketed uh um Gempson shows, like people will fly in for these celebrities and it'll be their off day, or they take off way more time than they were supposed to, you know what I mean? Like it was a yeah, um it's a whole thing, you know, with uh trying to figure out what show and f figuring out scheduling and and all of that, and people just really aren't privy to like who is going to be where and how often things can change in the games. Um and also with social media and streaming, it's so many uh you know, uh a show can blow up overnight without anybody ever getting to see it. You know, so um yeah, it's hard to figure out and pick what you want to go do when there's so much more to choose from now. And then and who knows, the the next whatever this is is off Broadway right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:04

Yes, you wouldn't even so how can you possibly how could you choose, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:12

No. By the time this comes out, we will have had a great time and it'll be fine. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:17

I mean, the only reason we're in New York in the first place is for uh a live uh DD podcast show anyway. So let's be real.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:25

Yeah, so truly Broadway is like an added bonus. It's like, okay, yeah, I guess while we're while we're in town, it was an exciting bonus, yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:32

Where are they doing that?

SPEAKER_04 1:36:33

Radio City Music Hall?

SPEAKER_06 1:36:34

Radio City, okay. That was the other thing they did at the guard. It was this who who is it?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:38

I went to the Dimension Tony. I went to that uh last year.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:42

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:43

Yeah, it was really cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:45

Yes. So Jonathan Larson is uh avoiding more.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:50

Yes. Oh yeah. So um uh John again at night is writing. Susan calls him, he's screening his calls. We get the voicemail, she's like, I can see you. Yes, yes, we get the rent vibes, yeah. We did get the rent vibes. She's like, There are all the lights are on in your apartment. I can, I know you're home. He peeks his head out. She says, I can see you. This is the day before cell phones, you know, where you had to use a payphone. Yeah. Um, so he does let her in and he's like, Oh, I if I had known you were coming, then I'm called and she does not think he's funny. No, I was like, You are no. Uh buddy. So don't do that. His apartment, his apartment looks like crap. He hasn't cleaned. Um we have the fight that's been building this entire time. Because uh, you know, she says that he hasn't been a champion of hers, and he's like, What do you mean? Like, I love when you dance and all this stuff. And like he hasn't been talking to her, he pushes her off. Um, you know, they argue about him being distant, everything's about the workshop.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:54

We get the great line of like talking about like she's talking about being unhappy, and he says, Everyone's unhappy in New York. That's what New York is. Wild. I mean, but it's like it's really the root of it. It's just like like thinking about like Susan, like wanting like step, you know, stability and like not to, you know, not to have to like gamble and struggle for things, and Michael taking a job that he knows has stability, and Jonathan going, Well, why don't you guys want to be miserable like me? I thought this was what we all wanted to do. Like, it's just it's it's a hilarious line, but it it is like at its heart, it's that like, oh, I I thought we were all fine with being unhappy.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:35

And we all agreed to be starving artists, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:38

Yeah, and some people it's like, hey, starving art, like starving isn't fun. I don't want to do this anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:43

Yeah. And then and then finally he says, like, you know, I can't move. And she's like, I know that. And he's like, Well, what do you mean you know? Like, what what what is this anyway? And she's like, Well, I thought maybe you could tell me not to go. Like, you know, there it is. Like, just tell me that you you want me, that you love me enough to not see me go. And then they hug and it's nice, and then he gets distracted, and it's he's thinking about music, and then she's like, you know what? Screw you, I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:14

And I'm like, the line, like the just the silence and her going, Oh my god, you're thinking about how you can turn this into a song, aren't you? And he just just deer in the headlights of like can't think of any.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:27

No, nope, nope, nope.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:30

I mean, no, what stay right there. Just yeah, I just I just need a second. Hang on.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:36

Hold that hug, don't walk away.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:38

Holding onto her and move over to the computer. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:42

Oh my god, if it's just like typing behind her back, oh and this was this was uh juxtaposed, right? With John and Caressa like singing that like really crazy confusing modern love song. Yes. That none of that made sense at all. Um that song is called therapy.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:05

Oh yeah. That yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That's one that I really want to like sit down and like look at all of the lyrics of it. It's like, what is happening here? Because like it's starting out, I'm just this is literally just like the therapy you speak of like I you know, I I hear your feelings, and this is the and then it just devolves, and I'm like, oh yeah, this is that's how it opens.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:28

It literally is I feel bad that you feel bad about me feeling bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:33

Yeah, you feeling bad. It's yeah, it's just it's so it's so good.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:38

It's very physical performance from from them from Andrew and Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:43

And I feel like I saw that like as like an ad for it or something, or maybe on Netflix, like when you scroll by it, and I was like, oh, obviously Andrew Garfield and Vanessa Hudgens are in like a there we go, there it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:58

So also uh that specific scene uh was nominated at the MTV Movie and uh TV Awards for Best Musical Moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:05

I like that. Okay, it didn't win, but it was a thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:08

Who won? Wait, what? What won? That's a good question. It's fine. No, no, 2022, now I gotta find out. Hang on.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:16

I missed the 2022 mini movie award.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:18

You didn't watch that crazy. It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:21

Well, clearly there wasn't anything worth watching.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:24

Oh, it was it was a scene from Heartstopper. That's cute.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:27

What's Heartstopper?

SPEAKER_03 1:41:28

Heartstopper, it's uh like a gay high school uh TV show. It's a TV show. Oh, okay. All right. It's like um it's based on a comic book that's really sweet.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:38

Um I've seen okay, that's why that sounded familiar. It's like I've seen that that cover.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:43

Yeah, it's it's very also on Netflix.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:45

I didn't know this was a category, and now I'm like, I have to click away before I scroll through the best musical book. I know I'm leaving that tab open for later. That's designed. Please. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:00

I know. Oh man. Who's got the time?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:05

I've seen bits and pieces. It is it is really cute. Like it's it's very wholesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:11

Oh, cute. Speaking of unwholesome, I don't know. Uh the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:16

We've got uh John is on the subway. We got the ticking again. John is late to the focus group and does not care. He absolutely does not care about being late at all. So there were two people familiar to me in this. Obviously, the one guy from Pitch Perfect. I cannot remember his name. Yes, it is doo-do-do.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:38

I I knew um You knew I was gonna say this. Um it is Utkarsk um Ambudkar.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:49

That's right, because yeah, he okay, and then um uh uh here we go. Uh Laura Banati. Uh-huh. The woman in charge of the um the focus group. Yeah. I didn't look her up. I've seen her from things. Uh right here it says she's Tony Award wimmer and five-time Tony Award nominee.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:16

Um, what have you done?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:18

She was um she was in Nashville. Um she was she was in the revival of gossip girl. Um, I don't know what you would possibly. Yeah?

SPEAKER_04 1:43:30

She was in younger. I watched some of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:33

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:34

I'm gonna devolve right and dissolve or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:38

She's been in a bunch of stuff. She was in the uh revival of Sound of Music. She was she won a T.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:44

Wait, the TV, the TV Oh, go ahead. Oh no. Was she in the TV one? No.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:50

No, no, she was just not the regular one. Um, she won a Tony for um the revival of Gypsy. Um, and she was nominated, nominated for her roles in Swing Into the Woods in 2002, Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, and she loves me. She's just been in a bunch of stuff. But she's very familiar to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:10

I was like, I know you, and I don't know why. But there was those two out of a focus group, and I was like, weird. I mean, I'm sure they weren't, I don't know if they were counted as cameos, but I was like, weird cameos because the other two people had no clue.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:21

Yeah. Um, yeah, the the younger woman is Michaela Diamond. Um, she was uh in the critically acclaimed Broadway revival of the musical parade. Um she was nominated for a Tony. Um basically, this is just like just the who's who Oh my god, the older woman, you will never guess who she was. Um, this is Danielle Furland. She originated the role of Little Red Riding Hood in Into the Woods. No my God, I knew she looked familiar and I could not figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:52

Oh my god, I'm so excited. Oh my god, Sakheim, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:58

Jesus Christ. She is truly like nothing, nothing by accident.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:02

No, no, everything is connected. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:07

Oh man. Oh my god. Oh my gosh. And then in oh, she did a regional production of Into the Woods in 2012 where she was the baker's wife. Oh my god. Okay. I love it. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:18

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:19

Fuck that. That's amazing. Okay. Yeah. Oh, and before that, she was in uh Sunday in the park with George. And then she was in the little night music after that. She's just done a ton of um sound high.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:29

So another amazing person. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:32

Yeah, musical connected. Okay. Oh, got now so many rabbit holes to fall down on all of these actors. I'm just like, what's your deal? Oh, okay. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:43

Wow. Okay. So yes, this uh this focus group. I don't know anyone, uh uh Laura is in charge. She's leading the group. Like, oh, you know, like what do you think of when we say the word America? And like Jonathan is just coming up with these like beautiful like phrases.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:01

He's a ringer, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:02

I mean, like, oh my god, like people are applauding him and like how amazing he is, and like it's so he's like, Man, I could get used to this. This is amazing. Like, this is so cool. He does, and he's like, This is so easy for me. Like, how could I not? But then we get down to the actual thing, and it's like, oh, we're you know, we're promoting this product, it's a fat substitute, and it has the most terrible side effects you could hear, and then Jonathan, it just gets worse and worse and worse, and so he starts to spiral again, and then he's like, I've got an idea for this name, and then um makes a joke, and nobody likes it.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:45

Yeah, just can't, you just he just can't hold himself back from taking the opportunity to yeah, like this this is what you guys want to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:55

Yeah, yeah, this is crazy. Why would I, yeah. So we cut to uh Michael and John are outside. Michael is pissed because he's like, I put m, you know, I put you into this, like this is gonna reflect on me that uh that that you made this a joke and and were not serious about it or whatever. And so so they they start to argue about the life choices. Um Michael, you know, says he wants a life with someone he loves, but can't get married or have kids. You know, half half my friends are dying, and the other half are scared that they're next. And uh, you know, he wants to enjoy uh what he can from life because you know he sees Jonathan who can have everything. He has Susan, he has everything that that Michael doesn't have, and and so you know, Michael's like, you're squandering this all away, like just you know, storms away. Reasonable, like very, very reasonably.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:52

So Jonathan returns home. Rosa finally calls him and tells him every producer in town is coming. It's it's you know, I can't can't wait to hear it or can't wait to see you.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:03

So, real quick, uh, Rosa is played by uh Judith, Judith Light, um, who uh made her professional stage debut um in uh uh 1970 before making her Broadway debut in the 1975 Revival of a Doll's House. Oh my yeah, and then she and then she was on uh One Life to Live, uh the soap opera for like six years.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:26

And then she was she's just been I was gonna say you land that soap opera gig, you're around she is set.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:32

Um she also st uh starred in the long-running uh ABC sitcom Who's the boss? Um with Tony Danza um from 1984 to 1992. Whoa. God, remember when shows used to run that long.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:47

That long ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:49

Yeah. But yeah, uh doll's house is it's uh Ibsen. Ibsen, yes. Uh-huh.

unknown 1:48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:56

So that's crazy. Yeah. But yeah, I was like, you have to be important. You have to be a theater person. I was like, girl, you gotta be someone, and she is at this point.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:05

Yes. Um so uh John gets super motivated, he cleans his apartment, he's ready to write.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:13

He's gotta get his life together.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:15

And then the power blows. Just kidding. No, the power turns off.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:19

Um, and then we cut to John on the phone because this is when you know, phone and power weren't power weren't connected at the same because it wasn't through the internet. Yep. He didn't pay his power and he can't pay over the phone tonight. So why didn't you guys tell me?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:36

And it's like we saw this. Why didn't you let me know when Michael handed it to you?

SPEAKER_04 1:49:41

We all knew it was gonna happen, John. Why didn't you? Yeah. John calls Susan's apartment because he's like, Well, who else do I call? Susan doesn't answer, her roommate Beth does. Yeah. And he's like, Well, can you leave a message? And I was like, Oh, okay, what's the message gonna be? He wants her to be at the workshop. I'm like, Are you kidding?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:56

Well, are you kidding? Here's the thing. I thought he was gonna say. Hey, I'm so sorry. Can I come over and can I go over to right? Yeah. Can I can I haul my computer over? Like I I thought that just asking her to be at the show, I thought was I thought was a better, more thoughtful move. Like it's not it's not great, but I think it's a better in the moment.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:22

In the options that may have been running through his head. That's the one to go away.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:27

The best one, yeah. Out of all his options that he came up with. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:31

It was it was the one that means she might talk to you again ever. Right. The other one might not be.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:37

She shows up, yes. Yeah. So we get the ticking again. He's got no new song. His best friend's mad at him. His girlfriend's not around. So he's like, so I go swimming, because that, you know, has has come up a few times. Like you've we've seen the visuals of him going to swim. So you've got a stream of consciousness song again, uh, during the swimming, where you know, like the visuals change, uh it's about the workshop and and the swimming. And then he notices the 30 on the pool floor and swims down to it, and it turns into a treble clef, and then the song is there for him, all written out in the pool. Uh, and so he he finally has his song and he immediately gets out and um and somehow writes the song. We don't really, I guess, because uh he just writes it in in like um like longhand like actually. Yeah, I was like, what are musical papers? I don't even remember now.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:38

I um honestly staffs? I don't know if it's is it is it manuscript pages? It's not manuscript pages. I don't know. I don't remember either. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:47

We used to know these things. Uh yes, we did. So we get ticking again, where it's the morning, we're at the workshop, uh the show's about to begin, and the room is empty. And we get this like dreading feeling, like, oh no. And then Caressa comes in and she's like, Hey, like, what's going on? And he's like, Oh my god, there's no one here, and she's like, You're an hour early. And he's like, Oh, okay. Um, great.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:15

Really quick as far. I don't know if you came across this as well, Kate, while you were to back it up a little bit to talk about this thing. Um, again, another uh just like with um No More, I think another really good use of it being a film and not a stage play, because this does not work, I don't think what whatsoever, um, in terms of the importance of this part. But also, I I I also watched another YouTube video when they were like researching what pool to use for this specific scene. This ended up being a pool that Jonathan Larson actually did swim at in the city as well when they were yeah, when they were scouting locations as well. So just it all again, it didn't really really seem like anything was er everything was intentional with the production of this movie. So I just wanted to make sure we to talk about that because that whenever I found that out, I was like, that's insane.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:09

So yeah, oh my god. Yeah, there's so many levels, that's so crazy. God, that's and it's just weird thinking like a random person who knows nothing about Jonathan Larson's gonna watch this and be like, huh. And I'm like, no, there's so much more you don't understand.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:22

It's like nope nope. Now you have to read the entire media article and things.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:27

Yes. Oh, that's so crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:29

That'll be a good discussion I want to have when we talk about like how we to rate the movie because it is in it is an incredibly neat just that the stuff we're talking about here. It's it's very niche audience, but I but like whether or not there is enough here for a general audience to enjoy as well, I think will be a good conversation.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:46

Yeah, and just like not even the movie, but like the accomplishment of like of like making it and like the god the thought and care put into making it that is unrealized.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:03

Well, or someone like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:04

No one, no one else could have made this movie, like truly, like it's people could have made good movies, no one could have made this movie, like no one like it's like adaptation, like parody and adaptation, like they're two things where you have to really deeply love the thing that you're adapting and that you're that you're working on in order to do it justice, and that's exactly what this is proof of. Like it's the only reason it works is because it's like I love this and I want to do it justice.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:35

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:36

Yeah. Um so since we're an hour early, Jonathan shows Caressa the song, and so they start like, you know, she finally gets her her her new song that he wrote a couple hours ago. Yeah, yes, like please, please help me, please do this. Yeah, um, so people start to show up. We see Jonathan's parents who are so adorable and fun, and like, hey, you know, like we're so excited, but are you getting paid for this? And Jonathan's like, no.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:06

But they came anyway. Michael shows up. I was kind of shocked about that, but he's so cool. Rosa comes in, has no idea what Jonathan looks like. Yeah. Um, and then gives him probably the worst pep talk ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:21

She's a nightmare. I love her.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:23

The worst.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:24

She's so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:26

Let's see. John is, it seems like he's waiting for Steven Sondheim to come because he has like a reserve chair. And Ira's like, We've we've waited long enough, like we we need to go. Uh-huh. And then he gets a little hug, which is cute because it does not seem like he is a very physical person, like physical, um like technically. Yeah, yeah. He's not very yeah, so it that was fun. So it kind of it starts already, and then Steven Sondheim comes in and he sits in the back, and it's like, oh my goodness, this is so exciting. Yeah. Um, and let's see, uh, it seems to be going well. Jonathan is watching Steven this whole time, and then Caressa gets to the new song, and uh instead of seeing her at the workshop, John sees Susan standing there singing it on the rooftop. We get this uh really cool back and forth duet between Susan and Caressa. And at the end of this song, like every like this this was the hit. Like everyone cheers, like specifically for this song.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:35

Yep, and this is why you bring in Vanessa Hutchins.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:38

Yep. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:40

Like, I mean, vibes, yeah, like Brother Research is also incredible, yeah, out of nowhere, like so good, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:48

Yeah, it's it's funny because like Caressa like has been set up as like part of that trio and like she's a singer. And I think I like I like that Susan gets a song. Like it it she seems like a character that like would not get her own actual song here. And I think that I like that it's partially her voice and like comes out of her and that she actually gets to sing that. Like, I I think that that's something where like in you know, in other musicals, like it would just be like, Oh, this is what I got from her, but she's like fully removed from it. But like even though she's not at the workshop, like her voice is what's coming across there.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:26

Yeah, she's what's heard and and and realized, as well as the performer that's actually performing. Yeah, I thought it was really cool because at first I was like, Well, is it just gonna be Susan? No, it's like half and then half, and then they're singing together, and I was like, God, love a love a strong lady duet. Like, you know, amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:46

Yeah, and also like the actual like some of like the lyrics of it. The song is come to your senses, which is maybe whether or not it's advice that Jonathan wants to hear. It is the advice that Susan was giving him, and it's what he fucking needs to hear, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:01

Yes, and and according to this movie musical, what he wrote for himself, yes, to to hear, you know, from from himself for himself. Yeah. Yes. So then we've got we're we're done with the showcase. We're already done with it. We did it. Jonathan's just like at his apartment, near just pacing by a phone. Uh-huh. And uh Rosa calls and is like, oh my gosh, everyone loved it so much. It was it was amazing. Raves all day long. Can't wait to see what you do next. And he's like, What do you mean? And and she's like, you know, nobody wants the musical you have. It's too expensive for off Broadway. But look, great presentation. And he's like, What I spent 10 years doing this, like, what do I do now? And so she kind of gets real with him, which is nice because this woman has been incredibly flighty the whole time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:58

Very good. She's like, I do have experience, and she actually next, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:02

She's like, I do have the experience, and she says, You write the next one, and then the next one, and on and on, and she says, and that's what it is to be a writer. You keep throwing them at the wall and you hope something sticks. But then, and I don't know if this is real, but you know, she says, the next one, maybe try writing what you know. And I was like, This movie. That's what this play is.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:23

I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:23

I know, yes. But then also rent. So I'm like, wait a second.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:31

Yes. With this one, like I I feel like I've probably talked about it on a podcast, but this is so relatable. Like, this is her conversation. It's like, can't wait to see what he does next. This is like when I was writing my master's thesis and I sent a chapter to my my thesis director, and she said, This is a solid first draft. And I said, What do you mean? And I was like, Oh god. It's like, oh, okay. Like that, just like, okay, I did it. And then it's like, oh no, you have that much further to go. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yikes. Yeah. Um, also the the line specifically, no one's gonna shell out sixty dollars to see this show. And I'm like, whoo, sixty dollars.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:13

Oh. What if I could, man? Yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to pay sixty dollars to see a Broadway show, please. To see anything, anything.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:21

Yeah, the the one of the video essays I I watched about this was Tick Tick Boom and the deromanticizing uh uh the and deromanticizing the journey of an artist. Yeah. That was um that's what they highlight too, is is you you write the next one, you move on to the next one, and they and and they also reference another movie uh that I actually I I also suggested here, which is another one of my favorites, which is La La Land, that also does that. Um where it you know it it's it's very real about the pursuit, you know, and I did stand-up comedy for over ten years before realizing I'm not good enough for this. I know what my ceiling is for stand-up comedy, and it's not what I'm doing, I'm doing workshops in Dallas, Texas, with a guy next to me who now is has a Netflix and a Hulu special and all that, and it's it's like, oh, I'm not that. Like, I'm not that guy. I could maybe open for that guy one day, but like the the realization of the constant pursuit, and it's like it's not all I'm gonna move to New York City and and you know, have this circle and and and chase my dreams and and all that. Like it's just it's just not that. Same thing with Lala Land, like it's not um this Hollywood story that everything is going to to work out, and now that I am also pursuing acting too, it's like I'm I it's I appreciate a work of art that is very intentional and and uh real about what this actually is and what this journey actually is. So yeah, yeah. It was a really good video that I that I came across.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:57

That's so interesting. That is cool. Yeah, that's that's exactly what it is. It's just like like taking like that ideal and like it is exactly that, just like deromanticizing it.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:10

And and how how and also also a very intentional choice by Lynn Manuel as far as Jonathan Larson never being able to reap the fruits of his labor the same way that Alexander Hamilton did not get to see a lot of the work that he put forth years later. Like literally the last song about how Eliza did everything, you know, that he or in all the characters in the show characters, they were they were real people. All the people talking about the pieces.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:44

Well, like they're on money, come on, come down, gross.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:47

You know, all the things that he all the groundwork that he laid that he also never got to see, you know. So I I'm sure a big Unsung Heroes selected this show.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:57

So that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:59

That's cool. That's a really cool parallel. We'll have to keep seeing what Lynn Manuel does, although didn't make a lot of time. The Lion King prequel. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:10

I think people got a little tired of him. Um, so he's like taking a little bit of a back seat because I don't think he's involved in this marana tragedy that's about to happen.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:19

Good for him.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:20

Get away from that shit. I think there's like a little like tipping point where I'm like, I don't he's he's talented, but I think there is also like a and like I I don't mind cringe. I like being cringe, I am cringe, I have a lot of like cringe interests and everything. There's something about him that is just like a very specific flavor of cringe that I'm like, you need to calm down a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:42

And I don't, and I don't, I don't know. And like I think at first I was like seeing that he directed this, I'm just like, oh, what does that mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:51

Yeah. No, I I I understand what you're saying because he was in the zeitgeist. I mean, he was literally on Brooklyn 99 uh as Amy Santiago's brother. He's so good at that. I mean, he was amazing. Like I I have no complaints. Oh, yeah. Um, but he was he is and was like a thing. And so it is nice that his obsession has taken a back seat into that only if you're really looking into it. Like his his his cringes behind the screen.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:18

Yeah. And then and he just had Hamilton 10, so like Hamilton's 10-year anniversary, and I think they came at the like the perfect time, so everybody was like rediscovering why they why they loved Hamilton so much. He was showing up just the right amount, and it helped, you know, Les um Leslie Odam Jr. returned to Hamilton too. So like that is a big so I think he he stepped back at the right time in a way that Ben Platt did not. Like we got too much Ben Platt, and now I'm I like I don't really done whatsoever at that point. The fact that he was in the movie adaptation, like he just could not ref he just refused to take a step back like from that. Like Bro, you're 45, man. We can't be doing this. I'm sorry. It's a bad wig, man. It's a bad wig.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:02

You were too old for pitch perfect, like let's be real. Yeah, it's like you were you were too old for this show when you were doing this show almost. Like, hey.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:10

Just the refusal to acknowledge the nepotism stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:13

Like, it's so easy to be like, yeah, that was when I talked out. When I found that out, I was like, just be like, you know what?

SPEAKER_06 2:05:20

I've taken I've been lucky enough to have a lot of opportunities thrown my way, and I just want to do my best. You know, that would have been so easy in the the way he answered. I was like, Well, that's that's rough, man.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:30

So that's math. That's kind of gross.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:33

Yeah. So um, so at least Lynn uh uh having the benefit of probably a you know a good supporting team and yeah, just being like And he's got kids, he's busy, you know, like he's got other stuff to do.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:47

Yeah. So um next, John bursts into Michael's office. He's like, look, I'm done with the writing, I need a job, all I want is money now. That's my life. I'm not an artist anymore. Like, please help. And so Michael is like shocked, and he's like, it would be like a tragedy for you to give up. Like, don't do that. Like, you're you're you're an amazing artist. Everyone loved the the showcase, like it went so well. And John's like, I don't want to keep wasting my time with this. Turning 30 is so scary. I'm running out of time. And Michael's like, you're not though, because guess what? I found out I'm HIV positive and I've only known a few days, and I tried to tell you, but you weren't listening. Um, and he says, if I'm lucky, I might get a year. Um so then, you know, uh John realizes where he has gone wrong, and and that, you know, not everything is about him. But then, of course, Michael is at his high-paying job and has to take a call. And he's like, I can't do this right now. I'm gonna cry. So, like, leave me alone, let me work. So uh Jonathan leaves, hears the ticking again. Was this a song?

SPEAKER_03 2:07:02

This is leading up to the song. Oh, he's leading up, okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:05

Yeah, so he's reminiscing about uh when he met Michael um 22 years ago at camp, then talks about how they were in high school shows, uh Cape Cod Summers. He tries to call Susan and she doesn't pick up. Then he just starts running and the ticking intensifies. And at this point, I was like, is this real life? Um it is because then he ends up in uh I'm assuming the the theater in the park.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:35

Um yeah, so it's um the Delacourt Theater, which is in Central Park, which is where they do the Shakespeare in the park.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:42

Shakespeare, okay, okay. And then just like opens the piano and then the ticking stops. Because I I was waiting for the boom, honestly. I was like, what is going to happen? Yeah. Because the ticking was intensifying, and I was like, okay, so like what is what are we leading up to? And it's just, and it's a song. It's about uh him and like how how he fell in love with um with uh a theater and you know, about him and John, excuse me, uh John and Michael entering a talent show. Uh, you know, what a way to spend a day. You know, I'm gonna spend my time this way. And then at 16, they are in West Side, uh, then at 29, and all the time it's like it was him and Michael, and I love, you know, being with Michael and I love being in in theater, and like this is how I want to spend my time. And uh then he he shows up to Michael's apartment, um, you know, says he's there for him, like, you know, talks about a support group and like all, you know, like like fully, fully, finally there for his friend in his time of need, understands what's important, and it's his friend Michael.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:50

Let's see. Then we've got it's the 30th birthday. It's the today's the day. It's uh Sunday. Jonathan has all his notes that he's been taking out uh in front of him. Uh Steven Sondheim leaves him a really great voicemail saying, like, hey, like I couldn't, uh like I didn't get to talk to you, but it was so good. I want to give you notes. I'm proud of you, like all this amazing stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:17

And the voice the voice on the voicemail is the real Stephen Sondheim. What? Uh-huh. I know. Cool. Yeah. It's amazing. It's great.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:32

Jesus Christ. Just a little, just a little something. The levels of this movie. Um it's so fucking good.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:41

And also it and it was literally just the year before he died, too. So it just no. Yeah, he died end of 2021.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:51

Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. So later that day we're at the diner. It's it's closed for the birthday party. Yeah. Um uh Jonathan is there. We see that uh Jonathan is no longer quitting his job, he's going back to the diner. Um, we hear that Freddie's still in the hospital, but he's going home soon, so he's doing better. Susan shows up and uh Carolyn's like, take care of that, figure your life out.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:22

Jon comes out and uh Susan's sad that uh nobody picked up the reading. But you know, at this point, Jonathan's like, it is what it is, like it's okay. I'm gonna start the next one. Susan says she took the job, which makes sense. Yeah. Good. Yeah, like good for you, Susan. This is good for you. Yes. Getting your life and focusing on you. And uh she she has a gift for him, and uh, it's the um the music book that they looked at in the beginning when she was like, That's nice, but how will you pay for it? Yeah, and then she says, Do you have any ideas? And um he says, just questions seems like a really good place to start. Uh and then they hug and it it's goodbye. Like we we are done here.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:14

Yep. Real quick, I looked it up. That paper is called staff paper.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:20

It was staff paper. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:22

I just looked it up. I was like, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:24

I need to check. I couldn't remember either. Um it's been years since I've looked at staff paper. All of those music classes, all those theory classes for nothing. So uh then we get like the not the where are they now, but like the voiceover again. Um and she says, you know, the next one was tick tick boom. And uh after that was a project he had started and put away called Rent, ran on Broadway for 12 years, uh, changed the definition of what a musical could be, what stories it could tell. This is where you're you're basically getting just like All real footage at this point, right? Okay, you see his real parents, so cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:05

Yes, so sweet.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:06

Uh they talk about how he died the night before the public performance. Uh he was only 35. You know, he still had so many questions. This I think this is my annotation. Like the stage performance is the musical. I think this is when I finally no, no, I'm kidding. No, I don't think so. Um, but like I think I am like kind of I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:24

Yeah, it's it's like basically like they're like running kind of parallel and then it's where they meet up, basically.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:30

Like it's they they yes, they meet, and then it goes kind of back to that like videographer like handheld camera kind of yes, yeah. Oh, because okay, uh right, because we're back at the end of the performance of tick-tick boom. Yes, uh right, and then uh you you look into the audience, and there's you know, family, most of the people we've met along the way. We got Sondheim, uh-huh. Uh, and then it's like I think he had a a chair that was like saved for Susan, and it's like, oh, Susan didn't come back, and then you look in the back, Susan did come back. Yeah, yeah. Michael's there with the guy. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yes, yes. Uh yeah, so that that's where it ends. And then I feel like was there a little bit more like found footage or something?

SPEAKER_03 2:13:20

Yeah, oh no, no, no. So um, so the the last performance of that is is basically the song that compiles all of all of the questions that he's been writing down the entire No, you're fine. Um, it's the the questions he'd been he's been writing down the entire movie so far. The song is louder than words, um, but just you know, being optimistic actually and like you know, looking forward to what's coming. Um, it ends with um uh they're back at the diner. Uh no, he plays um the last thing he does is plays happy birthday on the piano. Um I'm so sorry. Yeah, I no, no, you're fine. I don't know why I didn't write that down. No, I mean it's it's a musical. It kind of like ramps up and then it's like, and everyone bows and we're done. Um, but it uh ends with him playing happy birthday on the piano. Um you get that un it doesn't play the final note to resolve it. Um it just leaves it unresolved. Um we cut back to the party in the diner, um, where Michael is holding a cake with a bunch of candles and he says to make a wish. And before he blows out the candles, that is where the movie ends. So nothing is resolved, but everything is just possibility at that point. Yes. Um, and then we get uh the credits along with the actual uh footage of Jonathan Larson's life and yeah, just working at the diner and you know, other performances that he'd that he'd been in. A lot of the performances of what at the time was Boho Days, um just yeah, just the the actual archive of this this person who lived. And you also get to see how much of a fucking like incredible job Andrew Garfield did of replicating this person wild, like such a good casting, like truly um you ever seen if you've ever seen one of the interviews that he did.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:13

He Lynn cast him in this, I think, before hearing him sing. And he so Andrew was in a room and they were doing some sort of song and didn't know Lynn was like listening at the door. And I guess Lynn opened up the door. He's like, Andrew Garfield, you can sing. I don't have to recast you. Oh, no, that sounds like him.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:34

Oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah, just the oh thank god. Right. Right? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:40

Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:42

So wow. Yeah. Man. Yeah, I think sorry about that. I think I got like sucked into the movie and then didn't take notes for the last like five minutes.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:51

I no, I totally get, and I mean like the song, it's it's it's such a good song. And especially like remember like there were a couple that I like either had like the questions throughout the movie, there are a couple that either I had written down or I just like remembered reading. And like seeing those pop up, I was like, Oh, okay, this is this bit, this is this bit. Like, it's I don't know, it's just it's really good.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:11

That's a lot of the words is probably my favorite song, um, but it's very close with Johnny Can't decide. I just really, really resonate with Johnny Candicide and like who he is in that moment of trying to figure out what he wants to do as well. So yeah, it's it's tough. So it's good, it makes sense that she got sucked in.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:34

Yeah, yeah. I'll definitely have to um to listen to this again, uh, I guess on my own time. I'm trying to think, are there any bad words in this? I don't remember. That's the big thing now. Oh, I don't remember either.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:44

I don't feel like they're leave, so probably um 3090 does. 3090 does have in the beginning. Oh, yeah, because he's like fuck 3090.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:54

Yeah, in the never mind, I'll find some other time to listen to it again. Well, cool. Yeah, that that was the movie. Do we want to do ratings? Yeah, we're gonna do that, or or do we want to do does it hold up? I don't remember which one we've been doing this time.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:11

I think we usually do how it holds up. Um I feel like I feel like a four-year-old movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:16

I don't know if there's much of a we literally did last one that was like it came out last year.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:23

Yeah, less than a year, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:26

Yeah. So so yeah, like what what um and it glaring and glaring changes in the last five years. I mean, have you clearly you've listened to the music again, Phil, but like have you watched it again since the original the first time?

SPEAKER_06 2:17:39

Yeah, definitely. I I watched it uh a couple weeks ago before we we did this, just put it on. I didn't I had it on while I was doing other things, but I still had it, uh still I had it on. Um definitely holds up. I I think the with again with being someone who has pursued entertainment, I think it really is kind of timeless when it comes to just the the the story and the constant pursuit of whatever that next thing is. So it's held up very, very well. And again, the music is usually always in my s some some some some songs from this are always in my end of the year quotation just because I go back to them all the time. So for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:19

That's so cool. So when are you gonna go see Rent?

SPEAKER_06 2:18:22

Yeah, I cannot believe, and I'm sure it has come to Jacksonville, and I just didn't know it's not really traveling that much anymore.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:29

It does a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:30

I mean, maybe, I mean, I'm sure in the last 10 years I've lived here for 20 years, so I'm sure at some point it was it was here. It's crazy because I've seen not this is Larson, but I've seen like company on the local stage here. I've seen Comfort Away, I've seen um kind of this episode. I mean, this episode comes out way later. We actually just interviewed somebody from the touring cast from the ensemble from Beetlejuice, so that's what I've got in a couple weeks. Oh, it actually was so nice. Um so and there's a lot of practical practical stuff on that set too. So we do have a good we we have a good theater uh here, so stuff comes through. Uh shout out to the FSC J uh FSCJ theater.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:10

Um there are certain musicals where it's like you like you would see them for like a specific, like I need someone like like I hope there's really someone really strong in this role. I think Rent is such a great ensemble one. Whatever, whatever company whatever version, yeah. Whatever version you see, it's it's a good time.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:31

It's not the same thing, but my daughter did just see Rent the concert, so they did all the songs, but no, it was just like a band and all and and people singing the songs. So, and she loved it. She said it was everybody was incredible. So that's great.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:45

I feel like because the movie had so much of the original cast, it's not a bad version to watch.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:51

Yeah, I feel like I should probably I'll probably just watch it.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:53

No, I just like bite the bullet. It was however many years later that they were still old enough or young enough to play those roles. Yeah. And then go back and listen to the original Broadway cast recording, which of course is gonna be better. Yeah. Um, but uh yeah, because it's it's just one that's like not as, you know, I think popular at this point. Um it you'll get so much more from it now seeing this.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:18

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:20:19

That I I would love to hear whenever you listen to it or watch it.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:23

Like seeing it in the opposite order that we did. Yeah, what what feels like an Easter egg versus like what felt like an Easter egg for us?

SPEAKER_04 2:20:30

I think that'll be interesting. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:33

Yeah, so soon, soon for sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:20:35

Yeah, yeah. Uh so who wants to do rating first?

SPEAKER_03 2:20:40

Kate, do you want to go or um yeah, I'll go ahead and go. Um, I I really I really enjoyed this and I really enjoyed the production of it as well. Like I think the like the music, like I I love a musical. I know, like I knew I liked the music going in. Like I knew I was going to like the music going into it. Like I was I was anticipating that. I was surprised at how much I liked the acting and the just the production and everything. And then like reading more into like how it was produced and like the the level of like care and and uh love and attention that was put into putting it together. I I do want I do want to watch it another watch it a second time and see like you know, just letting it wash over me, not having to take as many notes and everything and see like you know, see what I can get out of it. I'm gonna I'm gonna say an eight. It feels high, but I really liked it. Like it's a good time. Um but yeah. Emily, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 2:21:45

I feel like I was confused for a lot of it. And I w I want to listen to the music again. Um, because I I but I think because a lot of it felt so stream of consciousness and so like manic, I couldn't get into it as much. Um but also finding out about all of the intricate details behind production and everything. Like yes, that definitely helped it for me. So it's gonna be higher than what I originally thought, but I'm only I'm gonna give it a six out of ten. Just because it didn't it didn't vibe with me as much. And I I didn't I don't know if I knew what to expect, but I think going into it as just a regular musical, I think maybe would have it's you know the thing that we do where you watch it for a thing and then you have to watch like it's it's always gonna be a little different.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:32

Yeah, it's like did I sit in the theater and watch this for fun, or did I did I pause it 20 times and take notes? Yeah and take it on.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:38

It's always gonna be slightly different, it's always gonna be different, but yeah, I I want to listen to the music again. None of it really I wasn't humming at any of it the next day. I wasn't thinking about any of the songs the next day. So I feel like it wasn't. I mean, it it just made me think, man, I really want to listen to Red, the music that I know and that I love. So I was like, okay. Um, but yeah, all the Broadway shout-outs and everything. I like that's yeah, that was really fun. The fun facts were super fun facts.

SPEAKER_03 2:23:06

Yeah, I honestly I would a hundred percent recommend like skimming through the Wikipedia page for this movie. It's okay. There's there it's so long. There were so many notes that I didn't even write down. There's just there's so much there's so much in it. Like it's really, really cool. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:24

Yeah. And I think that is one of the that was like one of the criticisms. Like it does not really slow down. So you're you're in and it's it for a two-hour runtime, like that's a lot, you know, especially if you're trying to keep up with um what's real time, what is what what what is the the workshop, what is the tick-tick boom performance, you know what I mean? So like I I definitely I definitely get that for sure. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:23:50

Phil, what about you? What would you rate this one? I know you brought it to us, but still.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:55

So I guess we'll figure out how to because for on letterbox, it's out of five.

SPEAKER_03 2:24:00

So I I will I we've just been branding it out of ten, and then I just do half stars.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:05

Yeah, we we we we've been cheating. We found out after the fact, after I made a letterbox, we're like, oh shit, this is out of five.

SPEAKER_06 2:24:11

Yeah. No, we used to do that too when we used to rate, like when we would watch new films and rate them, and then we went to letterbox. Oh, I guess we gotta change everything. It's so yeah. I will give I I've started in the last couple of years, like we talked about this in the beginning, where I've just started being a lot more. How did it make me feel? I will give an extra half star on five. So I uh initially when I when I rated the movie, I gave it a four out of five. So I guess that would be like an eight out of ten equivalent uh equivalent. So, but since re-watching it, I did give it the extra half star. I think I would probably land more of like a 4.25, but that's not an option. That's not a thing on it. So I think it's probably somewhere in there, but because again, because of the way that it uh that it makes me feel because it is a labor of love, I'd I'd have given it that extra bump to the four and a half. I wouldn't put it in like one of my favorite films of all time, but it is something that I would do go back to probably once a year. Okay. So it because again, I I I think I'm just so obsessed with the story around Andrew Garfield getting this uh getting this role. It happened right around the time where his mother passed away as well. Um the the stories and the um appearances that have come out of this press tour, I associate Andrew with that.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:29

So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:31

Yeah, so yeah, I very much so it's four to four point five, so I guess that's like a nine, nine point. It's like a nine, something like that.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:38

Something.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:39

Yeah, and I and I love it. So but I'm glad you guys got to watch it and and we got a lot of uh you get to see again the that the level of just the depth that when it came to I mean when when Lynn Manuel's in in charge of something, it's probably it's probably not so surprising as even though we were surprised to hear all those people take a step back to why I guess that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:00

Yeah, he's involved. He has the poll.

SPEAKER_06 2:26:02

But it was like and one more, and one more and my friends in this. Yeah, or if I put my friends in this and then people that he's probably like idolized forever, you know, for forever.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:12

Do you think maybe hey Steven Sondheim, do you think he could record a voicemail at the end of this, please? Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:19

Hey Bernard at Peters. We know you're super busy being famous and shit, but like we are right.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:25

God, wild. Well, thank you for for offering this one as as something for us to watch. I love I love this. I was very surprised. I was like, oh, this feels like kind of our vibe. I was like, this is a fun pick. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:39

I know a musical that neither one of us has seen.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:41

I know.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:43

Weird, but yeah, very exciting. I think yeah, we were both excited when you sent that. We're like, we haven't seen this. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_06 2:26:50

I was like, I remember because I was like, man, are these are these two new?

SPEAKER_04 2:26:55

No. What was the third one? Oh, that you listed?

SPEAKER_03 2:26:58

It was it was oh, so it was it was about time, I think. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:07

I wanted to throw a rom com in there. Yeah, I think that's the one. Is that the one with um with Rachel McAdams?

SPEAKER_03 2:27:12

Yeah, I straight up. We haven't seen that. I don't think I've seen it, but I can't remember. Like I skimmed the synopsis. Oh, that's right. You said you were I was like truly, I'm like 50-50. I'm like, I don't know if I've seen it. I know I haven't.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:27

And then um La La Land, Kate has not seen. Um, but my husband and I we have seen it and we have very differing opinions on the movie. And so I thought it would be funny if he came on and we saw which way Kate swayed with me or my husband. So that that's the only reason we didn't say yes to Lala at that.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:51

So and Eric Hate.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:54

I think it it's uh unsuspectingly very technically. Yeah, yeah, it it definitely is my favorite part. Oh, okay. Got it.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:06

I'm trying not to give anything away. Yeah, no, you're fine. I'm excited to watch that one. Like, I think just I think Emily, like you were surprised that I hadn't seen it, and then you were like, wait, hang on, I have a plan.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:16

I was like, okay. Yeah, because I would because yeah, my yeah, my husband he's like, I want to be on your podcast. And I was like, okay, we have to think of a movie. So yeah. But talking about other guests, Phil, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much for a long time coming, obviously. We have been big fans of Wait for It and and have been on it multiple times.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:37

Yeah, yeah, we gotta catch we gotta even this out.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:39

We gotta be on the book. I know. Well, we we we uh we'll be in talks with Eric soon, and then you know, we'll we'll keep doing it. But uh for anyone that doesn't know, uh you want to go ahead and uh talk about uh your your podcast or anything else that you want to plug as well for yourself.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:57

Yeah, so um the Way Forward Podcast, it is a pop culture show, so we talk things, uh movie, TV, uh anime. We do a series that's kind of similar. It's called Late to the Party, where both of us typically will watch a film or a TV show that we have never watched before. Um so and that has yielded interesting results. Uh some we found some new favorites and some films people really love that we hated. So it's been it has been a time. So uh yeah, we can you can find it uh anywhere you can find this show. Um also if you'd like to head to Spotify or Apple Podcasts and listen to uh the audio story that I'm uh uh the co-lead in. It's called Amongst Gods and Men, the Ambrosia Case, um where I feel I play Vincent Ramirez, so make sure you check that out. And uh yeah, follow me, Phil the Filipino uh everywhere. And that's F-I-L-I-P-I-N-O, uh everywhere to keep up with what's going on with the voice acting stuff. So we work in.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:58

Yay! Of course, yeah, we'll have links for everything.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:01

Doing such cool things.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:03

Yeah, so exciting.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:05

It's so good. Well, if you would also like to follow our show, um, we have several different social platforms. Um, we are Sister CinemaSwap on Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and Letterboxd. Uh Letterbox is S-I-S-T-R CinemaSwap because Sister CinemaSwap was too long. Still don't understand that one. Wild.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:27

Wild. We can't even spell our whole name.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:29

Come on. What is it, 2012? Come on. Dropping vowels all over the place. I hate it.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:37

Uh, but we also want to thank Jenny Crowley for our amazingly adorable artwork. Nick Heretti for our very cool theme music. And we want to thank you guys so much for still listening and uh coming back. We still don't know what to say. So we'll see you at the music halls. We'll see you. We'll see you at the theater. We'll see you at the theater.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:59

The Great White Way.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:01

Broadway.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:03

No, no.